Team Fortress 2: Mann vs Machine

[Witchyjoshy]

That's actually more or less what I meant, though I will admit I haven't played MvM yet.

In TF2 play, spies basically had no place in a good game because good players are so paranoid that no disguise works.  The only use disguises have are to trick sentries.  And depending on the location, sentry nests are more easily taken care of by a soldier or a demoman than any spy (though the red tape recorder has made things a lot easier for spies)

As far as assassinations go, a good sniper beats a good spy any day.

In MvM, however, spies seem to have an actual use because what they can accomplish can't be more easily done by other classes.  That was my point.

[Cerim Treascair]

*reloads sniper rifle*

If any of you want some practice... lemme know.  I'll keep the long-range clear for you.

[Askold]

I finally managed to get TF2 working and tried MvM, it was ok. Although as usual the biggest problem in a multiplayer mode is that you are playing with actual humans and so far the teams I've been in haven't been any good.

Also, I was checking the new weapons in TF2 and found the description of the Phlogistinator. It seemed funny, but after a while I began thinking that the word seemed familiar... Then I remembered that Phlogiston was an historical scientific theory!

http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Phlogistinator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phlogiston_theory

[Mechtaur]

That's actually more or less what I meant, though I will admit I haven't played MvM yet.

In TF2 play, spies basically had no place in a good game because good players are so paranoid that no disguise works.  The only use disguises have are to trick sentries.  And depending on the location, sentry nests are more easily taken care of by a soldier or a demoman than any spy (though the red tape recorder has made things a lot easier for spies)

As far as assassinations go, a good sniper beats a good spy any day.

In MvM, however, spies seem to have an actual use because what they can accomplish can't be more easily done by other classes.  That was my point.

A decent spy can have a place in a game with good players by introducing even more paranoia. I've been able to wreck an entire team as one by making them hate each other even more. They got so bad that they would all focus on a single person they saw moving and this would cost them the game.

While a good team that can keep its head cool can make a spy dead meat really fast, the chances of the majority of the members of that team having that skill are pretty low and that is all the spy needs to start screwing with everyone.


Oh, and I played my first few MVM matches yesterday. Gotta say it was pretty fun, but I'm glad I'm used to the usual nature of TF2 players (I.E. Whiny bitches).

The first match had me as a heavy with the rest of the team consisting of an engineer, sniper, and scout. The sniper had some of the worst accuracy in the world and maybe killed a single enemy out of every wave while the engineer couldn't grasp the concept of "get your damn sentry out from the open if you don't want it to keep getting destroyed". The scout was just fine though and had the second largest kill rate, following myself. Unfortunately, we didn't complete all the waves because the engineer and the sniper started to bitch about me taking the ammo boxes I found while killing 7-8 out of every dozen bots that flew past them, which the scout finally got tired of and left. This was enough for me to say fuck it and leave as well since neither wanted to learn any tactics and expected the others to bend around them.

Other matches went just fine and I really look forward to trying to get a few tickets for Mann Up mode.

[Cerim Treascair]

Again, still offering sniper services...

Also, Mech, sent you a friend invite.  Tlaren, at your service.  I'm just going by Siraj of late.

[Yaezakura]

Sadly, the matchmaker seems significantly broken at the moment. No one's being put in any existing games, so you can't replace people who quit half-way. Perhaps not a problem if you have an entire 6-man party, but pubbing it is all but impossible at the moment.

[Mechtaur]

Again, still offering sniper services...

Also, Mech, sent you a friend invite.  Tlaren, at your service.  I'm just going by Siraj of late.

I was wondering who sent me an invite. Hope to catch you in a game at some point.

[Cerim Treascair]

Again, still offering sniper services...

Also, Mech, sent you a friend invite.  Tlaren, at your service.  I'm just going by Siraj of late.

I was wondering who sent me an invite. Hope to catch you in a game at some point.

I'll be getting into TF2 as soon as I get home.. probably on around 6 p.m. EST

[syaoranvee]

Going for my second round of Mann Up missions now, even bought a voucher as it seems like the hat drops are more common with them.

[Mechtaur]

Did some experimenting with classes and I found one thing that slightly disappointed me. I was checking if the Diamond Back got crits from sapping the robots, it doesn't.

[Yaezakura]

Did some experimenting with classes and I found one thing that slightly disappointed me. I was checking if the Diamond Back got crits from sapping the robots, it doesn't.

Well, it does specifically say "buildings destroyed". Honestly, being able to get a guaranteed crit off every robot that dies while sapped would make the Diamondback insanely overpowered in MvM.

[Mechtaur]

I wasn't aiming for the ones caught in the sapper aura, just the one that got sappered (sp?) itself.

Because of the fact that Engineer bots don't exist at all and the fact that robots don't give crits, the Diamond Back is actually the weakest revolver in the game now. It has absolutely no benefit to it.

I mean, would giving a crit on a destroyed sapped robot really break the game when I can give myself five full seconds of crits at only 100 credits? Hell, the counter could just reset at the end of a wave if people are worried about people saving all the crits till the end (assuming they survive that long).

[Yaezakura]

Well, saying it's the weakest revolver in the game isn't quite fair. The weakest in MvM? Sure. But plenty of weapons are really weak in certain situations. Natasha sucks everywhere but MvM. Pretty much the same with the Beggar's Bazooka. The Neon Annihilator is a straight downgrade to the Fire Axe if playing on a map with no water, having to rely on scouts/snipers to get enemies wet.

There are plenty of situations where the Diamondback can be an incredibly potent revolver. It's just not while playing MvM.

[Mechtaur]

Well, saying it's the weakest revolver in the game isn't quite fair. The weakest in MvM? Sure. But plenty of weapons are really weak in certain situations. Natasha sucks everywhere but MvM. Pretty much the same with the Beggar's Bazooka. The Neon Annihilator is a straight downgrade to the Fire Axe if playing on a map with no water, having to rely on scouts/snipers to get enemies wet.

There are plenty of situations where the Diamondback can be an incredibly potent revolver. It's just not while playing MvM.

Sorry for lack of proper wording, when I said game I did mean MvM. And you are right in that certain weapons depend on the mode and group, just like classes.

I wouldn't say that the Natascha sucks everywhere but MvM, I've seen and used it effectively in CtF and even in basic Attack/Defense games. The ability to slow down people long enough for say, a Solder's Liberty Launcher shot to hit a small cluster of people or to allow the Sniper that split second more time to line up a headshot can be invaluable. Not my personal favorite Mini, but seeing Scouts and Demoknights ragequit is just hilarious to me under most cirumstances as well.

Can't say much for the Beggar's Bazooka, but I've seen it used an awful lot in "for fun" game maps. People seem to do ok there, and in a few Saxton Hale servers I go to too. I don't usually play a Soldier anyway, and I'm really unorthodox when I do (My set usually consists of a Rocket Jumper, Mantreads, and Market Gardener).

Neon Annihilator I can see your point on one hand, but kind of not on the other. Either you need water or something to make the opponent wet, which is a bit random. On the flip side, it is rare that I see a Sniper that isn't packing Jarate and the Mad Milk seems to have gotten more fans in other modes since MvM came out. It can also be a slightly handy alternative to the Maul/Homewrecker since it can detach Sappers, but deal a little more damage to players (Minus the extra damage to buildings [Because Robots don't count as buildings, this can make the Neon better in MvM] and the lack of random crits) I personally use a Strange Sydney Sleeper, which makes a Pyro using buddy of mine smile when we play. But, that is beside the point and I concede this one since it is a really good example.

But, not sure how this turned into a case of arguing over when and where a weapon is useful or not. Just got a little confused as to why they didn't make a sapped robot give a crit. Nothing game breaking, just confusing. Not that I really care anyway, I use my Strange L'Entranger under most circumstances when I play Spy. I'm more holding out for them to fix a lot of the issues that seem to be coming up regarding getting into the game and staying there, a lot of MvM servers I was on today crashed at the exact same point.

Edit: Had to fix some grammar errors and make this thing actually sound like a list of reasons instead of a ramble.