Author Topic: Worst Political Cartoons  (Read 1675267 times)

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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Worst Political Cartoons
« Reply #5235 on: November 05, 2014, 05:08:27 pm »
Your italics ate your post, Askold.

...But basically, what you said was spot-on.  I couldn't add a single thing to that without being redundant ;D
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Worst Political Cartoons
« Reply #5236 on: November 05, 2014, 08:12:02 pm »
Well, let me try to add something, then. The Christians and Muslims were forbidden by their religions from profiting by charging interest for loans. The Jews who had no such qualms became bankers for them. So, they were not only outsiders but often wealthy outsiders and the fact that a big source of their wealth was seen as sinful just increased the envy and bitterness.

Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: Worst Political Cartoons
« Reply #5237 on: November 05, 2014, 11:22:22 pm »


This actually makes a good point, though in a juvenile and wrong-headed way: modern western persecution is a lot bad than it used to be. This is a major achievement of Western liberalism and is something to be celebrated, not used as a cudgel against further reform.
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Offline Feral Dog

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Re: Worst Political Cartoons
« Reply #5238 on: November 05, 2014, 11:52:21 pm »
Well, let me try to add something, then. The Christians and Muslims were forbidden by their religions from profiting by charging interest for loans. The Jews who had no such qualms became bankers for them. So, they were not only outsiders but often wealthy outsiders and the fact that a big source of their wealth was seen as sinful just increased the envy and bitterness.

Not only did they not have qualms, banking was one of the few industries a middle- or upper-class Jewish person could get involved in. They were, in many areas, legally barred from working in medicine, working in law, holding public office, etc.
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Worst Political Cartoons
« Reply #5239 on: November 06, 2014, 12:20:31 am »
Well, let me try to add something, then. The Christians and Muslims were forbidden by their religions from profiting by charging interest for loans. The Jews who had no such qualms became bankers for them. So, they were not only outsiders but often wealthy outsiders and the fact that a big source of their wealth was seen as sinful just increased the envy and bitterness.

Not only did they not have qualms, banking was one of the few industries a middle- or upper-class Jewish person could get involved in. They were, in many areas, legally barred from working in medicine, working in law, holding public office, etc.

So basically, self-fulfilling racism, which is basically what most institutional racism is?
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Offline Askold

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Re: Worst Political Cartoons
« Reply #5240 on: November 06, 2014, 01:35:55 am »
Well, let me try to add something, then. The Christians and Muslims were forbidden by their religions from profiting by charging interest for loans. The Jews who had no such qualms became bankers for them. So, they were not only outsiders but often wealthy outsiders and the fact that a big source of their wealth was seen as sinful just increased the envy and bitterness.

Not only did they not have qualms, banking was one of the few industries a middle- or upper-class Jewish person could get involved in. They were, in many areas, legally barred from working in medicine, working in law, holding public office, etc.

So basically, self-fulfilling racism, which is basically what most institutional racism is?

Yes. The Christians needed the Jews to handle the banking but this meant that the Jews became wealthy and when you have wealthy "outsiders" (I keep using this term and should explain that I mean it in the sense of "US vs THEM" mentality having a clear enemy/rival to unite the people. Jews were handy in this since fomenting hate towards foreigners might not be a good idea if you want allies but Jews were everywhere but did not hold much power so hating them had no diplomatic downsides.) it is easy to hate them.
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: Worst Political Cartoons
« Reply #5241 on: November 06, 2014, 01:39:54 am »
Well, let me try to add something, then. The Christians and Muslims were forbidden by their religions from profiting by charging interest for loans. The Jews who had no such qualms became bankers for them. So, they were not only outsiders but often wealthy outsiders and the fact that a big source of their wealth was seen as sinful just increased the envy and bitterness.

Not only did they not have qualms, banking was one of the few industries a middle- or upper-class Jewish person could get involved in. They were, in many areas, legally barred from working in medicine, working in law, holding public office, etc.

So basically, self-fulfilling racism, which is basically what most institutional racism is?

Yes. The Christians needed the Jews to handle the banking but this meant that the Jews became wealthy and when you have wealthy "outsiders" (I keep using this term and should explain that I mean it in the sense of "US vs THEM" mentality having a clear enemy/rival to unite the people. Jews were handy in this since fomenting hate towards foreigners might not be a good idea if you want allies but Jews were everywhere but did not hold much power so hating them had no diplomatic downsides.) it is easy to hate them.

The Jews were very useful as a "middle-man minority". No Catholic would lend, because usury is banned in the bible. Only Jews would lend. This is obviously a very important economic task - look at Spain in the 19th century to see what a land without usury is like - but it made the Jews fairly wealthy without "working". Very easy to hate, middle-man minorities.
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Offline mellenORL

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Re: Worst Political Cartoons
« Reply #5242 on: November 06, 2014, 10:01:21 am »
Just to underscore how lowly and vicious the propaganda bigotry against Jews was/is; bankers weren't even a substantial percentage of the Jewish population. The other "allowed" higher income occupation, being a jeweler, was also viewed as cause for resentment (note that the English word for gemstone trinkets was conventionally based on the word "Jew"), as were Jewish merchants and shop owners. Most Jews, though, were working class artisans and laborers, like tailors, bakers, cobblers, brick masons, trash carters and street sweepers, again because of being legally barred from many job classes.
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: Worst Political Cartoons
« Reply #5243 on: November 06, 2014, 03:52:29 pm »
Just to underscore how lowly and vicious the propaganda bigotry against Jews was/is; bankers weren't even a substantial percentage of the Jewish population. The other "allowed" higher income occupation, being a jeweler, was also viewed as cause for resentment (note that the English word for gemstone trinkets was conventionally based on the word "Jew"), as were Jewish merchants and shop owners. Most Jews, though, were working class artisans and laborers, like tailors, bakers, cobblers, brick masons, trash carters and street sweepers, again because of being legally barred from many job classes.

That alone is a really cool fact and I thank you.
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Worst Political Cartoons
« Reply #5244 on: November 06, 2014, 03:53:05 pm »
Just to underscore how lowly and vicious the propaganda bigotry against Jews was/is; bankers weren't even a substantial percentage of the Jewish population. The other "allowed" higher income occupation, being a jeweler, was also viewed as cause for resentment (note that the English word for gemstone trinkets was conventionally based on the word "Jew"), as were Jewish merchants and shop owners. Most Jews, though, were working class artisans and laborers, like tailors, bakers, cobblers, brick masons, trash carters and street sweepers, again because of being legally barred from many job classes.

That alone is a really cool fact and I thank you.

I never knew that either.

Offline Beezlebub

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Re: Worst Political Cartoons
« Reply #5245 on: November 08, 2014, 03:43:55 am »
We just went over this in theology class. Oddly, it's my best class.
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Re: Worst Political Cartoons
« Reply #5246 on: November 08, 2014, 03:57:04 am »
Source pls?

Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Worst Political Cartoons
« Reply #5247 on: November 08, 2014, 07:00:22 am »
(note that the English word for gemstone trinkets was conventionally based on the word "Jew")

Quote
jewel (n.)
late 13c., "article of value used for adornment," from Anglo-French juel, Old French jouel "ornament, jewel" (12c.), perhaps from Medieval Latin jocale, from Latin jocus "pastime, sport," in Vulgar Latin "that which causes joy" (see joke (n.)). Another theory traces it to Latin gaudium, also with a notion of "rejoice" (see joy).

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=jewel

Similarity doesn't necessarily mean etymological relationship.

Offline mellenORL

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Re: Worst Political Cartoons
« Reply #5248 on: November 08, 2014, 11:13:11 am »
It's what I learned in history class years ago. So, either the textbook was wrong, or the etymologists have other theories. The spelling seems a little too coinky-dinky, regardless, especially considering the centuries-long tradition of diamond and other gemstone transport, import, stone cutting and setting, especially amongst Hasidim and Sephardic Jews.

Consider also that it might be the other way around; Hebrews or Israelites getting tagged with what is otherwise a seemingly non sequitur sounding name of "Jew", from their association with jewels?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0005_0_05194.html
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Offline Nemo

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Re: Worst Political Cartoons
« Reply #5249 on: November 08, 2014, 11:47:13 am »
It's what I learned in history class years ago. So, either the textbook was wrong, or the etymologists have other theories. The spelling seems a little too coinky-dinky, regardless, especially considering the centuries-long tradition of diamond and other gemstone transport, import, stone cutting and setting, especially amongst Hasidim and Sephardic Jews.

Consider also that it might be the other way around; Hebrews or Israelites getting tagged with what is otherwise a seemingly non sequitur sounding name of "Jew", from their association with jewels?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0005_0_05194.html
The word "Jew" derives from Judah. In the Torah, Judah was one of the twelve sons of Jacob/Israel, and the founder of one of the twelve tribes. After the reign of King Solomon, Judah seceded from Israel and became an independent country.
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