Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate

[Vinroke]

Evidence so strong you've yet to present it

[Ultimate Paragon]

Evidence so strong you've yet to present it

Did you even read my link to the Steam reviews?

[niam2023]

He'll be a few weeks and then he'll post a chatlog or a 4/8chan thread.

That's just the kind of stupid he is.

[Tolpuddle Martyr]

I never claimed that there was no transphobia, just that it was overblown[/b]. 

Thereby throwing in a subjective measure allowing Ultie to sprint with the goalposts to the thousand yard line regardless of how much transphobia appears on Steam's review page.

Ultie, where and how cheaply did you purchase a backhoe? I figure you must have one, to be digging yourself a hole so quickly and efficiently.

Wouldn't be the first time would it? 

[Eiki-mun]

Ultie, where and how cheaply did you purchase a backhoe? I figure you must have one, to be digging yourself a hole so quickly and efficiently.

Don't blame me, blame the ideological circlejerk that refuses to accept dissenting viewpoints.  Fact is, I have strong evidence suggesting that the transphobes are a vocal minority among the expansion's critics.

Even assuming that's true, a vocal minority still has a significant presence and influences perceptions on the wider community, which I believe is a point you yourself have attempted to make on issues like feminism. Should we not call out this 'vocal minority', again assuming that's true, rather than just dismiss them as harmless?

[niam2023]

He's obligated to involve himself in these kinds of things.

His friends supply his posts - otherwise he has no ideas of his own.

I believe these words best describe him "a great and incoherent mass of worship, vain and aggrandizing, but ultimately meaningless."

[davedan]

Ultie, where and how cheaply did you purchase a backhoe? I figure you must have one, to be digging yourself a hole so quickly and efficiently.

Don't blame me, blame the ideological circlejerk that refuses to accept dissenting viewpoints.  Fact is, I have strong evidence suggesting that the transphobes are a vocal minority among the expansion's critics.

Look before we continue this discussion I think it is important that we define the following terms so that we are all on the same page (after all this is apparently part of the Socratic method):

'blame', 'ideological', 'circlejerk', 'refuses', 'accept', 'dissenting', 'viewpoints', 'evidence', 'suggesting', 'minority' and 'critics'.

Then again UP hasn't actually played the game so I'm not sure why anyone is bothering.

So UP: What games do you actually own/play?

[Vinroke]

(click to show/hide)

I wasn't originally planning on writing a review for this expansion, but since Trent Oster came out begging people to write positive reviews I felt compelled to voice my opinion.

First, the 800 lbs. gorilla in the room is clearly the SJW aspects of the expansion. I am a social libertarian, I don't care what consenting adults do in their personal lifes. However even I find the obvious SJW push in this game to be jarring, out of place and pushing an agenda. One of the two writers of the game, Amber Scott, even said as much. Calling herself a SJW and saying she makes a concious effort of putting social justice elements into everything she does. Her body of work certainly shows this, both her writing for the Pathfinder RPG and this game is pushing it extensively. I don't mind realistic deptictions of people with non-standard sexualities, but this comes off as an attempt by Scott to feel good about herself and her extreme progressivism more than anything else. And the writing is so bad that I wonder whether or not she has ever met an actual homosexual or transgender person. The most obvious example is the transgender priest in your camp, you say "You have an interesting name", the answer is to the effect of "I used to be a man so I made this one up". It is in your face and jarring, no actual trans woman would act like this. Bottom line is if this kind of thing bothers you then avoid this game.

However it continues from there. The overall writing of the game is generally bad. The plot twist with the villain at the end is extremely obvious to anyone with a brain, and doubly so for anyone who has played the Icewind Dale series. In fact the obvious nature of the twist as well as the blatant Lawful Stupid acts of Caelar Argent, the paladin antagonist makes it unbelievable at best. How can someone with the ability to detect evil at will not realize that a person close to her with a sinister voice and pitch black eyes is not a good guy?

Beyond this the game is also extremely linear, you have generally very little choice in where to go and what to do. And once you continue on to the next chapter in the expansion you cannot backtrack. There also isn't a whole lot to do beyond the main quest, there are several large wilderness areas but besides pointless fights with trash mobs there is rarely anything to do in them. After seeing your millionth tree or exloring your 10th cave you get very tired of it.

Truly cringeworthy attempts at humor are also to be found. These attempts at levity just take you out of the game and mesh poorly with the humor that was in the original. The encounter with an obvious "hippie stoner" in a tavern early on and very modern jokes and references to other media, like for example Portal 2 is very jarring. I do not enjoy it when characters make references to "spaaaace".

The last problem is that the game fails to do what it set out to in the first place. This expansion, previously known as "Adventure Y", was meant to bridge the gap between Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, and to explain how the main character came to be in the hands of the BG2 villain and why the particular companions in there were with him. And you do indeed start out with your chosen group from the original in the expansion, but most of them just disappear within the first 30 minutes with no real explanation. You are then saddled with an extremely narrow selection of characters to choose from. Token attempts at mentioning things to come are made, but the finale of the expansion, the villains you have defeated and the power you have gained just makes it seem ridiculous that a band of rogues working for the BG2 villain would be able to capture someone like you. And the reason why you are with the people you are in the beginning of BG2 makes no sense, they simply show up at the last moment for no apparent reason, regardless if you were antagonistic towards them the whole game or simply ignored them and didn't take them along.

Finally, the game is full of bugs. Serious bugs, gamebreaking bugs, that should never have made it through quality assurance. If you buy this now I hope you are comfortable with using console commands, because odds are good that you will have to. There are quests that can't be completed because a quest item didn't get registered. Achievements that won't fire, even knowing they existed it took me four or five attempts to earn some of them, others I have been completely unable to get even after multiple attempts. Other achievements fire too early or without even doing what is necessary to earn them. The biggest issue I've experienced, and seen numerous others face as well is a plot critical npc dying due to a bad event script without realizing it had happened and being unable to progress in the intended manner. Something as serious and common as this making it into the final release is just shameful.

After everything I've seen I can only say to Beamdog, don't make Baldur's Gate 3. Pass it on to Obsidian Entertainment or some other competent developer, fix the issues with the game, walk back you SJW agenda, then issue an apology for all of it. Hang you head in shame Trent Oster, begging for positive reviews you haven't earned is shameful.

Final verdict: Mediocre, 4/10 points.

TL;DR: Bad writing, bad agenda pushing, linear story and tons of bugs. Do not recommend.

(click to show/hide)

Game is unplayable for me in its current state, unable to load or play more than 30 minutes without crash. Developer is too worried about being a SJW to fix or even acknowledge there are technical issues for many of us. From what I have played so far I have found poor writing and characters that are NOT as I remember them.

Release a game that works at launch please. I was given "fixes" from beamdog website that require a computer science degree to complete. I just want to hit the play button and play the game without crashes.....is that really so hard for this company to do?

Also be aware that Steam will NOT issue me a refund even though I only was able to play 30 minutes of this mess. I like many others started a new game in Baldurs Gate EE prior to playing expansion and they count the time played in the original game against your 2 hours to request a refund.

(click to show/hide)

The SJW's have taken hold of Baldur's Gate. You can't even roleplay an evil character any more and claim to want to rip the flesh off of their transgender bones and eat their transgender intestines.. You will be banned. Even if you are a special gender as well. I identify as a Baldur'sGateGender. That means I like to play as a fantasy character and do evil, good, and neutral things at all times. You cannot control me. I will do as I wish in the land of Faerûn.

I can't believe I am giving a Baldur's Gate game a bad review. I f*cking love this game series. This expansion is decent and it's more BG which is good. This is a matter of principle. I want the new writer to repeat after me: "I will not abuse a classic and beloved game franchise as a soapbox to further my own ideological agendas" X10

The thing about public reviews are that they are just that - public. The KiddiesInAction brigading going on is -very- visible

[Ultimate Paragon]

(click to show/hide)

I wasn't originally planning on writing a review for this expansion, but since Trent Oster came out begging people to write positive reviews I felt compelled to voice my opinion.

First, the 800 lbs. gorilla in the room is clearly the SJW aspects of the expansion. I am a social libertarian, I don't care what consenting adults do in their personal lifes. However even I find the obvious SJW push in this game to be jarring, out of place and pushing an agenda. One of the two writers of the game, Amber Scott, even said as much. Calling herself a SJW and saying she makes a concious effort of putting social justice elements into everything she does. Her body of work certainly shows this, both her writing for the Pathfinder RPG and this game is pushing it extensively. I don't mind realistic deptictions of people with non-standard sexualities, but this comes off as an attempt by Scott to feel good about herself and her extreme progressivism more than anything else. And the writing is so bad that I wonder whether or not she has ever met an actual homosexual or transgender person. The most obvious example is the transgender priest in your camp, you say "You have an interesting name", the answer is to the effect of "I used to be a man so I made this one up". It is in your face and jarring, no actual trans woman would act like this. Bottom line is if this kind of thing bothers you then avoid this game.

However it continues from there. The overall writing of the game is generally bad. The plot twist with the villain at the end is extremely obvious to anyone with a brain, and doubly so for anyone who has played the Icewind Dale series. In fact the obvious nature of the twist as well as the blatant Lawful Stupid acts of Caelar Argent, the paladin antagonist makes it unbelievable at best. How can someone with the ability to detect evil at will not realize that a person close to her with a sinister voice and pitch black eyes is not a good guy?

Beyond this the game is also extremely linear, you have generally very little choice in where to go and what to do. And once you continue on to the next chapter in the expansion you cannot backtrack. There also isn't a whole lot to do beyond the main quest, there are several large wilderness areas but besides pointless fights with trash mobs there is rarely anything to do in them. After seeing your millionth tree or exloring your 10th cave you get very tired of it.

Truly cringeworthy attempts at humor are also to be found. These attempts at levity just take you out of the game and mesh poorly with the humor that was in the original. The encounter with an obvious "hippie stoner" in a tavern early on and very modern jokes and references to other media, like for example Portal 2 is very jarring. I do not enjoy it when characters make references to "spaaaace".

The last problem is that the game fails to do what it set out to in the first place. This expansion, previously known as "Adventure Y", was meant to bridge the gap between Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, and to explain how the main character came to be in the hands of the BG2 villain and why the particular companions in there were with him. And you do indeed start out with your chosen group from the original in the expansion, but most of them just disappear within the first 30 minutes with no real explanation. You are then saddled with an extremely narrow selection of characters to choose from. Token attempts at mentioning things to come are made, but the finale of the expansion, the villains you have defeated and the power you have gained just makes it seem ridiculous that a band of rogues working for the BG2 villain would be able to capture someone like you. And the reason why you are with the people you are in the beginning of BG2 makes no sense, they simply show up at the last moment for no apparent reason, regardless if you were antagonistic towards them the whole game or simply ignored them and didn't take them along.

Finally, the game is full of bugs. Serious bugs, gamebreaking bugs, that should never have made it through quality assurance. If you buy this now I hope you are comfortable with using console commands, because odds are good that you will have to. There are quests that can't be completed because a quest item didn't get registered. Achievements that won't fire, even knowing they existed it took me four or five attempts to earn some of them, others I have been completely unable to get even after multiple attempts. Other achievements fire too early or without even doing what is necessary to earn them. The biggest issue I've experienced, and seen numerous others face as well is a plot critical npc dying due to a bad event script without realizing it had happened and being unable to progress in the intended manner. Something as serious and common as this making it into the final release is just shameful.

After everything I've seen I can only say to Beamdog, don't make Baldur's Gate 3. Pass it on to Obsidian Entertainment or some other competent developer, fix the issues with the game, walk back you SJW agenda, then issue an apology for all of it. Hang you head in shame Trent Oster, begging for positive reviews you haven't earned is shameful.

Final verdict: Mediocre, 4/10 points.

TL;DR: Bad writing, bad agenda pushing, linear story and tons of bugs. Do not recommend.

(click to show/hide)

Game is unplayable for me in its current state, unable to load or play more than 30 minutes without crash. Developer is too worried about being a SJW to fix or even acknowledge there are technical issues for many of us. From what I have played so far I have found poor writing and characters that are NOT as I remember them.

Release a game that works at launch please. I was given "fixes" from beamdog website that require a computer science degree to complete. I just want to hit the play button and play the game without crashes.....is that really so hard for this company to do?

Also be aware that Steam will NOT issue me a refund even though I only was able to play 30 minutes of this mess. I like many others started a new game in Baldurs Gate EE prior to playing expansion and they count the time played in the original game against your 2 hours to request a refund.

(click to show/hide)

The SJW's have taken hold of Baldur's Gate. You can't even roleplay an evil character any more and claim to want to rip the flesh off of their transgender bones and eat their transgender intestines.. You will be banned. Even if you are a special gender as well. I identify as a Baldur'sGateGender. That means I like to play as a fantasy character and do evil, good, and neutral things at all times. You cannot control me. I will do as I wish in the land of Faerûn.

I can't believe I am giving a Baldur's Gate game a bad review. I f*cking love this game series. This expansion is decent and it's more BG which is good. This is a matter of principle. I want the new writer to repeat after me: "I will not abuse a classic and beloved game franchise as a soapbox to further my own ideological agendas" X10

The thing about public reviews are that they are just that - public. The KiddiesInAction brigading going on is -very- visible

1.  What's wrong with it?  No, seriously?  All it says was that Mizhena's characterization was the tip of the iceberg.

2.  That was mostly about the game being non-functional.  Try again.

3.  That has more to do with taking away the player's choice than anything.  Still, I can kind of see where you're coming from.

4.  Yeah, that's not really much of a "review."  This one I'll also give you, even if I don't think it's necessarily transphobic.

[ironbite]

Gosh darn are you adorable!

Ironbite-and just so cute!

[Ultimate Paragon]

Gosh darn are you adorable!

Ironbite-and just so cute!

Your condescension is even more adorable!

Ultie, where and how cheaply did you purchase a backhoe? I figure you must have one, to be digging yourself a hole so quickly and efficiently.

Don't blame me, blame the ideological circlejerk that refuses to accept dissenting viewpoints.  Fact is, I have strong evidence suggesting that the transphobes are a vocal minority among the expansion's critics.

Even assuming that's true, a vocal minority still has a significant presence and influences perceptions on the wider community, which I believe is a point you yourself have attempted to make on issues like feminism. Should we not call out this 'vocal minority', again assuming that's true, rather than just dismiss them as harmless?

Oh, I have no problem with calling them out.  My problem is with most of the game's critics being lumped in with these people.

[Vinroke]

(click to show/hide)

No, it is not.

Here is a general list (not complete in the slightest).

1. One developer calls the previous writers/audience sexist and goes about to change several character personalities and stories to "fix" it for the modern generation who she claims is not sexist.

2. These changes have obvious political messages and contain many inconsitencies in game play and continuity between the games.

3. In doing so, said developer claims anyone who has a problem, well... "too bad".

4. One of the changes is a transgender character to which the dialog makes no sense and is written with obvious political means. That is, the character has no real point in the story other than to get you to ask about her name and then go into a message about how he was born a boy and now is a girl. This is obvious political pandering, pointless and amature in its implementation.

5. There are numerous bugs with the game which range from crashes to complete features not even working at all (Multiplayer).

6. The writing in general is out of place, with much of it being liken to cheap fanfics with modern language and dialog making it embarasing to even stomach reading.

7. There is a reference to some gamergate thing which was a poor joke and obviously inflammatory (this angered the gamergate people).

8. When fans began to complain about various things, BD set a false narrative turning it into a claim of a witch hunt because of the transgender, constantly dismissing and insulting the fan base calling them "small minded", not "real BG fans", etc... and calling in support from activists to apparently fight this so called persecution.

9. Obviously due to the expected reaction of BDs comments and behavior, reviews have been affected by both general players as well as the gamergate people.The result was them pleading with people to give them good reviews to combat what they claimed were "fake reviews".

There is a lot more, especially if you get into the details of the game, writing, features, etc...


Those claiming this is all about a trangender are either devious in motive or ignorant on the topic.

(click to show/hide)

Shar-Teel was hired to write for this game.

“If there was something for the original Baldur’s Gate that just doesn’t mesh for modern day gamers like the sexism, [we tried to address that],” said writer Amber Scott. “In the original there’s a lot of jokes at women’s expense. Or if not a lot, there’s a couple, like Safana was just a sex object in BG 1, and Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy. We were able to say, ‘No, that’s not really the kind of story we want to make.’ In Siege of Dragonspear, Safana gets her own little storyline, she got a way better personality upgrade. If people don’t like that, then too bad.”
 

(click to show/hide)

Look, I have no problems with LGBTQ. None.

But please keep your ideology out of a classic game. Don't force us to buy into controversial topics. We are trying to ESCAPE that crap.

Also, the Director of Beamdog just begged people to come here and leave positive reviews because people were bashing it for forcing SJW crap at us.

Why not just listen to the feedback, admit you tried to push an agenda, and remove the offending material?

Also, a ton of bugs.

(click to show/hide)

I like the game( its BG somewhere deep inside), but what with all this SJW?
- Hello I'm tranny! How are you? Hurr durr!
- Hello I'm strong and independent lady! Hurr durr!
- Hello I'm goblin and youre racist! Hurr durr!
Also bugs. Wait for fix.

(click to show/hide)

Pushes SJW agenda rubbish for no reason, You want to have a trans character? Fine, spells and belts of gender change exist in the lore, use them.

Oh and lets not forget you also get told off for Mansplaining in the game. Amber Scott wrote trash for Paizo's Wrath of the Righteous campaign and now they're writing trash for Baldur's Gate.

buying and then refunding simply to leave a negative review:

(click to show/hide)

“If there was something for the original Baldur’s Gate that just doesn’t mesh for modern day gamers like the sexism, [we tried to address that],” said writer Amber Scott. “In the original there’s a lot of jokes at women’s expense. Or if not a lot, there’s a couple, like Safana was just a sex object in BG 1, and Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy. We were able to say like, ‘No, that’s not really the kind of story we want to make.’ In Siege of Dragonspear, Safana gets her own little storyline, she got a way better personality upgrade. If people don’t like that, then too bad.”-Amber Scott, writer for new Baldur's Gate

Your purchase has been refunded by Steam.
We’ve issued the refund to your Steam wallet. The funds will be shown now as pending and will become available to spend within 7 days.

Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear - Playtime: 9 minutes

Purchased: Apr 3, 2016 EST

No It is about the multiple Bugs and crashes and the loss of over 300 hours of game play on BG EE since the update

The expansion hasn't been out 300hrs yet so bug claims are dubious - I don't doubt there are bugs, any complex software is going to have them, however when there is an overwhelming amount of negative reviews due to "SJW writing" and metabombing being a thing I am going to be suspicious of it being KiddiesInAction activity especially when the puport to support developer freedom

[Ultimate Paragon]

(click to show/hide)

No, it is not.

Here is a general list (not complete in the slightest).

1. One developer calls the previous writers/audience sexist and goes about to change several character personalities and stories to "fix" it for the modern generation who she claims is not sexist.

2. These changes have obvious political messages and contain many inconsitencies in game play and continuity between the games.

3. In doing so, said developer claims anyone who has a problem, well... "too bad".

4. One of the changes is a transgender character to which the dialog makes no sense and is written with obvious political means. That is, the character has no real point in the story other than to get you to ask about her name and then go into a message about how he was born a boy and now is a girl. This is obvious political pandering, pointless and amature in its implementation.

5. There are numerous bugs with the game which range from crashes to complete features not even working at all (Multiplayer).

6. The writing in general is out of place, with much of it being liken to cheap fanfics with modern language and dialog making it embarasing to even stomach reading.

7. There is a reference to some gamergate thing which was a poor joke and obviously inflammatory (this angered the gamergate people).

8. When fans began to complain about various things, BD set a false narrative turning it into a claim of a witch hunt because of the transgender, constantly dismissing and insulting the fan base calling them "small minded", not "real BG fans", etc... and calling in support from activists to apparently fight this so called persecution.

9. Obviously due to the expected reaction of BDs comments and behavior, reviews have been affected by both general players as well as the gamergate people.The result was them pleading with people to give them good reviews to combat what they claimed were "fake reviews".

There is a lot more, especially if you get into the details of the game, writing, features, etc...


Those claiming this is all about a trangender are either devious in motive or ignorant on the topic.

(click to show/hide)

Shar-Teel was hired to write for this game.

“If there was something for the original Baldur’s Gate that just doesn’t mesh for modern day gamers like the sexism, [we tried to address that],” said writer Amber Scott. “In the original there’s a lot of jokes at women’s expense. Or if not a lot, there’s a couple, like Safana was just a sex object in BG 1, and Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy. We were able to say, ‘No, that’s not really the kind of story we want to make.’ In Siege of Dragonspear, Safana gets her own little storyline, she got a way better personality upgrade. If people don’t like that, then too bad.”
 

(click to show/hide)

Look, I have no problems with LGBTQ. None.

But please keep your ideology out of a classic game. Don't force us to buy into controversial topics. We are trying to ESCAPE that crap.

Also, the Director of Beamdog just begged people to come here and leave positive reviews because people were bashing it for forcing SJW crap at us.

Why not just listen to the feedback, admit you tried to push an agenda, and remove the offending material?

Also, a ton of bugs.

(click to show/hide)

I like the game( its BG somewhere deep inside), but what with all this SJW?
- Hello I'm tranny! How are you? Hurr durr!
- Hello I'm strong and independent lady! Hurr durr!
- Hello I'm goblin and youre racist! Hurr durr!
Also bugs. Wait for fix.

(click to show/hide)

Pushes SJW agenda rubbish for no reason, You want to have a trans character? Fine, spells and belts of gender change exist in the lore, use them.

Oh and lets not forget you also get told off for Mansplaining in the game. Amber Scott wrote trash for Paizo's Wrath of the Righteous campaign and now they're writing trash for Baldur's Gate.

buying and then refunding simply to leave a negative review:

(click to show/hide)

“If there was something for the original Baldur’s Gate that just doesn’t mesh for modern day gamers like the sexism, [we tried to address that],” said writer Amber Scott. “In the original there’s a lot of jokes at women’s expense. Or if not a lot, there’s a couple, like Safana was just a sex object in BG 1, and Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy. We were able to say like, ‘No, that’s not really the kind of story we want to make.’ In Siege of Dragonspear, Safana gets her own little storyline, she got a way better personality upgrade. If people don’t like that, then too bad.”-Amber Scott, writer for new Baldur's Gate

Your purchase has been refunded by Steam.
We’ve issued the refund to your Steam wallet. The funds will be shown now as pending and will become available to spend within 7 days.

Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear - Playtime: 9 minutes

Purchased: Apr 3, 2016 EST

No It is about the multiple Bugs and crashes and the loss of over 300 hours of game play on BG EE since the update

The expansion hasn't been out 300hrs yet so bug claims are dubious - I don't doubt there are bugs, any complex software is going to have them, however when there is an overwhelming amount of negative reviews due to "SJW writing" and metabombing being a thing I am going to be suspicious of it being KiddiesInAction activity especially when the puport to support developer freedom

How do you know it's KiA that's doing this?  And congratulations, Sherlock, you found one inconsistency!

[davedan]

What do you mean by 'doing'?

Oh and he explained the dubious claim in the text - that is the complaint of a loss of 300 hours of gameplay when the game had not been out 300 hours?

Direct Question Time - UP Direct Question: What games do you own/play?

[Vinroke]

Yeah, I'm done with this. Stapling my balls to a sander would be a more productive use of my time