Author Topic: James Gunn Fired for Offensive Tweets  (Read 7689 times)

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Offline Murdin

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Re: James Gunn Fired for Offensive Tweets
« Reply #60 on: July 25, 2018, 11:33:51 am »
"Nazi apologist" is a slur! So much for liberal tolerance!

I'm not sure when and how it happened, but at some point, "X is a slur" and its variants became more pervasive as a thought-terminating cliché than straight, ad-hominem accusations of X. Maybe that was always the case, and I was just being a bit too sympathetic towards anti-SJW types at the time?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 01:03:40 pm by Murdin »

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: James Gunn Fired for Offensive Tweets
« Reply #61 on: July 25, 2018, 12:01:16 pm »
"Nazi apologist" is a slur! So much for liberal tolerance!

I'm not sure when and how it happened, but at some point, "X is a slur" and its variants became a more pervasive thought-terminating clché than straight, ad-hominem accusations of X. Maybe that was always the case, and I was just being a bit too sympathetic towards anti-SJW types at the time?

Since when? Maybe it's just me, but ad hominem accusations still seem far more pervasive than "X is a slur". Now granted, it doesn't seem like left-wing hardliners are the only ones guilty of it, just about everyone is. Honestly, I'm afraid the national discourse will eventually devolve into this:

"Cuck!"

"Alt-right!"

"Cuck!"

"Alt-right!"

Repeat ad nauseam. It'll be like the "rocket man" vs. "dotard" fight, only on a much larger scale and lasting for much longer.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 12:03:11 pm by Lana Reverse »
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: James Gunn Fired for Offensive Tweets
« Reply #62 on: July 25, 2018, 12:10:31 pm »
Lana, when these debates inevitably arise, why do you always happen to defend the poor, downtrodden Nazis?
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Offline Askold

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Re: James Gunn Fired for Offensive Tweets
« Reply #63 on: July 25, 2018, 12:49:54 pm »
At some point overwhelming amounts of evidence of Nazi-apologist behaviour make it more than just "personal opinion."
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Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: James Gunn Fired for Offensive Tweets
« Reply #64 on: July 25, 2018, 02:59:08 pm »
Lana, when these debates inevitably arise, why do you always happen to defend the poor, downtrodden Nazis?

The better question is why do you throw shade at me when we have these debates? And while we're at it, why do you think defending a group's civil liberties means defending the group itself? By that logic, the ACLU holds a lot of contradictory positions.

At some point overwhelming amounts of evidence of Nazi-apologist behaviour make it more than just "personal opinion."

Says the guy who thought an essay with "A Modest Proposal" in the title was being serious.

And why am I not surprised you're defending her? Once again, you show that you are a terrible moderator. That's not just my opinion either. I sent a PM to Sigmaleph complaining about your performance, and asking if there was something I was missing. She didn't even try to defend you, basically saying "yeah, he sucks, but I don't know anyone here right now who would do better." See for yourself:

I'm aware of the situation and don't have a good answer.

I don't know of anyone I could promote to a moderation position that would do better.

Before you go around insulting me, why don't you go look at yourself in the mirror?
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: James Gunn Fired for Offensive Tweets
« Reply #65 on: July 25, 2018, 03:42:44 pm »
Oh LAWDY!!!!!
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Offline Murdin

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Re: James Gunn Fired for Offensive Tweets
« Reply #66 on: July 25, 2018, 03:50:22 pm »
Made a small edit to my previous post for people with reading comprehension difficulties.

Incidentally, I do not think Queen's accusation of "Nazi apologism" qualifies a thought-terminating cliché, since it was very much secondary to her actual point (that it is unreasonable to ask for evidence of Cernovich's intent).

I'm not sure what part of this accusation Lana is taking offense with. Is that the "apologist" part, and the underlying implication that her defense of Cernovich (and others before him) might not have entirely been in good faith? Or does she object to the use of the word "Nazi" to describe a white identitarian, ultra-nationalist, male chauvinist, anti-semitic dog-whistling conspiracy theorist, presumably because he is not a proper ethno-nationalist and abstains from explicly blaming "the jews"? The world may never know, as she prefers to prentend being slandered for her principled opposition to Nazi-punching.

Or maybe we could try having a reasonable discussion about our respective definitions of Nazism hahaha who am I kidding.

I know how fun it is to play with Lana's personal outrage over being called anything less than a perfectly reasonable moderate, but... doesn't it feel like a distraction to move the subject away from her own terrible arguments? Every time someone calls her out on her bullshit, she just doubles down on the false equivalences and vague accusations of hypocrisy. The original post equated a bunch of 10-year-old offensive jokes with Barr's deplorable (heh) social media behavior while hired by ABC, and the best excuse she could find is that, I quote: "Roseanne only made one such tweet. Gunn made many.".

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: James Gunn Fired for Offensive Tweets
« Reply #67 on: July 25, 2018, 05:51:21 pm »
It's not on Moffat to debunk. I'm on a classic Dr Who fanpage on Facebook and the moderators had to clean house to get rid of whiny dorks howling about the Doctor being a giiiiiiirrrlllll. Who yeah, howled about being censored after days howling "Shut it Down." Moffat has fuck all to do with it and should know better in any case, having been on the business end of lunatic fan outrage more than once.

I don't doubt that there was some backlash, but Moffat says that it was greatly exaggerated.
Your threshold for "debunked" is as high as Jacob Harrison's threshold for "proof."

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: James Gunn Fired for Offensive Tweets
« Reply #68 on: July 25, 2018, 05:55:51 pm »
Made a small edit to my previous post for people with reading comprehension difficulties.

Incidentally, I do not think Queen's accusation of "Nazi apologism" qualifies a thought-terminating cliché, since it was very much secondary to her actual point (that it is unreasonable to ask for evidence of Cernovich's intent).

I'm not sure what part of this accusation Lana is taking offense with. Is that the "apologist" part, and the underlying implication that her defense of Cernovich (and others before him) might not have entirely been in good faith? Or does she object to the use of the word "Nazi" to describe a white identitarian, ultra-nationalist, male chauvinist, anti-semitic dog-whistling conspiracy theorist, presumably because he is not a proper ethno-nationalist and abstains from explicly blaming "the jews"? The world may never know, as she prefers to prentend being slandered for her principled opposition to Nazi-punching.

Or maybe we could try having a reasonable discussion about our respective definitions of Nazism hahaha who am I kidding.

It's the first thing that I object to.

And I didn't know the precise definition of "thought-terminating cliche" was, and figured it was something along the lines of "ad hominem". When you assume, I guess. While Queenie's accusations of Nazi sympathies may not be thought-terminating cliches, they're still rude, unwarranted, and do not foster good discourse.

Just for the record, I'm down with a calm, rational discussion about outrage culture and how it affects people.

I know how fun it is to play with Lana's personal outrage over being called anything less than a perfectly reasonable moderate, but... doesn't it feel like a distraction to move the subject away from her own terrible arguments? Every time someone calls her out on her bullshit, she just doubles down on the false equivalences and vague accusations of hypocrisy. The original post equated a bunch of 10-year-old offensive jokes with Barr's deplorable (heh) social media behavior while hired by ABC, and the best excuse she could find is that, I quote: "Roseanne only made one such tweet. Gunn made many.".

I'm not to proud to admit that when I get emotional, it's hard for me to argue. But I can be persuasive in calmer, less hostile interactions. So why don't we deescalate things a bit and have that discussion?

It's not on Moffat to debunk. I'm on a classic Dr Who fanpage on Facebook and the moderators had to clean house to get rid of whiny dorks howling about the Doctor being a giiiiiiirrrlllll. Who yeah, howled about being censored after days howling "Shut it Down." Moffat has fuck all to do with it and should know better in any case, having been on the business end of lunatic fan outrage more than once.

I don't doubt that there was some backlash, but Moffat says that it was greatly exaggerated.
Your threshold for "debunked" is as high as Jacob Harrison's threshold for "proof."

That would have more weight if you hadn't tried to rebut me with anecdotal evidence.
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: James Gunn Fired for Offensive Tweets
« Reply #69 on: July 25, 2018, 06:04:10 pm »
Made a small edit to my previous post for people with reading comprehension difficulties.

Incidentally, I do not think Queen's accusation of "Nazi apologism" qualifies a thought-terminating cliché, since it was very much secondary to her actual point (that it is unreasonable to ask for evidence of Cernovich's intent).

I'm not sure what part of this accusation Lana is taking offense with. Is that the "apologist" part, and the underlying implication that her defense of Cernovich (and others before him) might not have entirely been in good faith? Or does she object to the use of the word "Nazi" to describe a white identitarian, ultra-nationalist, male chauvinist, anti-semitic dog-whistling conspiracy theorist, presumably because he is not a proper ethno-nationalist and abstains from explicly blaming "the jews"? The world may never know, as she prefers to prentend being slandered for her principled opposition to Nazi-punching.

Or maybe we could try having a reasonable discussion about our respective definitions of Nazism hahaha who am I kidding.

It's the first thing that I object to.

And I didn't know the precise definition of "thought-terminating cliche" was, and figured it was something along the lines of "ad hominem". When you assume, I guess. While Queenie's accusations of Nazi sympathies may not be thought-terminating cliches, they're still rude, unwarranted, and do not foster good discourse.

Just for the record, I'm down with a calm, rational discussion about outrage culture and how it affects people.

For the record, I don't give a fuck. I don't care about this debate, and will happily sit it out. As I have said before, I do not believe you argue in good-faith, and your preemptive request for Cenovich's intent belies your more recent request for good-faith discourse. I mean, here's proof Cernovich said it:



What do we have to gain by arguing whether he meant it? I mean, he said it, to the world, on twitter--indelibly--which is apparently good enough for presidential press releases.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: James Gunn Fired for Offensive Tweets
« Reply #70 on: July 25, 2018, 06:36:09 pm »
Who's trying to rebut you? You're never satisfied with anything if not being satisfied with anything that contradicts your deliberatly specious offerings adds to the trolling. Trolls gonna troll but we know this party trick Lana-it's boring. Change the script yeah?

See Queen's post above. She found it, she presented it and you will switch to Gatekeeper of Truth mode and shift the boundries of what you'll except ever so slightly in a transparent attempt to make the person knocking down your house of cards look like the one presenting a contentious opinion to be defended. We know it, we've seen it and you're doing it right now.

Bored now. Change the script?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 06:45:42 pm by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: James Gunn Fired for Offensive Tweets
« Reply #71 on: July 25, 2018, 06:49:40 pm »
Who's trying to rebut you? You're never satisfied with anything if not being satisfied with anything that contradicts your deliberatly specious offerings adds to the trolling. Trolls gonna troll but we know this party trick Lana-it's boring. Change the script yeah?

See Queen's post above. She found it, she presented it and you will switch to Gatekeeper of Truth mode and shift the boundries of what you'll except ever so slightly in a transparent attempt to make the person knocking down your house of cards look like the one presenting a contentious opinion to be defended. We know it, we've seen it and you're doing it right now.

Bored now. Change the script?

Could you please stop trying to assign motives to me? Trying to cast aspersions on me?
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: James Gunn Fired for Offensive Tweets
« Reply #72 on: July 25, 2018, 06:55:08 pm »
Past behavior is the surest probable indicator of future behavior. I'm not talking about your motives, just what you do. We've all seen it, it worked for a bit but it's getting old now. We've all seen it before. New party trick, eh?

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: James Gunn Fired for Offensive Tweets
« Reply #73 on: July 25, 2018, 07:58:24 pm »
And why am I not surprised you're defending her? Once again, you show that you are a terrible moderator. That's not just my opinion either. I sent a PM to Sigmaleph complaining about your performance, and asking if there was something I was missing. She didn't even try to defend you, basically saying "yeah, he sucks, but I don't know anyone here right now who would do better." See for yourself:

I'm aware of the situation and don't have a good answer.

I don't know of anyone I could promote to a moderation position that would do better.

Before you go around insulting me, why don't you go look at yourself in the mirror?

Sigh.

Yes, I said that. No, I did not say Askold was a terrible moderator, nor do I believe that. I'm happy to explain the context for that statement if anyone cares, to the extent I can do so without disclosing things told to me in private.

The user Lana Reverse has been banned indefinitely, for not having a concept of private communication and for trying to use me to insult a different user I happen to respect far more than them.

Honestly, what did you expect?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 08:11:35 pm by Sigmaleph »
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: James Gunn Fired for Offensive Tweets
« Reply #74 on: July 25, 2018, 08:06:00 pm »
...WOW.  Fucking...just WOW.
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