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Shootings in Hanau, Germany
Cloud3514:
The "good guy with a gun" rhetoric just flat out ignores that the shooting still happened. Whether it was stopped short or not doesn't change that. The pro-guns crowd never talks about prevention, only reaction.
dpareja:
--- Quote from: Cloud3514 on February 25, 2020, 02:28:31 am ---The "good guy with a gun" rhetoric just flat out ignores that the shooting still happened. Whether it was stopped short or not doesn't change that. The pro-guns crowd never talks about prevention, only reaction.
--- End quote ---
The point the pro-gun crowd would make is that it's impossible to know how many shootings would have happened but for the possibility of the presence of a "good guy with a gun".
To which I say, look at Australia.
Vanto:
--- Quote from: Skybison on February 22, 2020, 01:04:07 pm ---Plus with Kelley even with the good guy with a gun he still killed more then Roof did and there have been other times like the Pulse nightclub shooting where the good guy wasn't able to stop the shooter.
--- End quote ---
That's because Kelley was targeting a larger group of people than Roof. Would you rather Willeford hadn't been there?
--- Quote from: Cloud3514 on February 25, 2020, 02:28:31 am ---The "good guy with a gun" rhetoric just flat out ignores that the shooting still happened. Whether it was stopped short or not doesn't change that. The pro-guns crowd never talks about prevention, only reaction.
--- End quote ---
Because preventative measures don't reliably work. Chicago's gun crime statistics are proof of that.
--- Quote from: dpareja on February 25, 2020, 03:27:53 am ---
--- Quote from: Cloud3514 on February 25, 2020, 02:28:31 am ---The "good guy with a gun" rhetoric just flat out ignores that the shooting still happened. Whether it was stopped short or not doesn't change that. The pro-guns crowd never talks about prevention, only reaction.
--- End quote ---
The point the pro-gun crowd would make is that it's impossible to know how many shootings would have happened but for the possibility of the presence of a "good guy with a gun".
To which I say, look at Australia.
--- End quote ---
No offense, but if you think Australia's gun control is working... well, let's just say it's a standpoint based on a surface-level understanding of the issue.
For starters, gun-control advocates like to point to the fact that Australia's homicide rates fell after they instituted their 1996 legislation. This ignores the fact that murder rates fell all over the Western world at around that time. Correlation does not equal causation. In fact, studies have debunked the "gun control saved lives in Australia!" narrative.
Also, I'd like to point out that about that same time, many American states loosened their gun laws. You could just as easily argue that this is proof that more relaxed gun laws mean less crime using the exact same logic. But for some reason, the gun control crowd doesn't. Isn't that funny?
Second, Australia has more guns now than it did in 1996. Moreover, their gun laws have accomplished nothing, and have created a violent black market. While a lot of people tout the supposed effectiveness of Australia's gun control, Australians may be more at risk from gun violence than ever. Ben Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." What does that say about people who would give up liberty for the mere illusion of safety?
Lastly, even if gun control did work in Australia, that doesn't necessarily mean it would work in America.
So, if anything, what we can learn from Australia is that gun control does not work. You might as well point to 1920s America as an example of how prohibition works.
ironbite:
Oh lovely. Vanto's one of THOSE types of gun nuts.
Ironbite-guess he's not aware that in most of the Chicago-based gun crimes, the guns come from neighboring states like Indiana and Wisconsin.
Vanto:
--- Quote from: ironbite on February 25, 2020, 05:07:33 pm ---Oh lovely. Vanto's one of THOSE types of gun nuts.
Ironbite-guess he's not aware that in most of the Chicago-based gun crimes, the guns come from neighboring states like Indiana and Wisconsin.
--- End quote ---
Both of those states have lower rates of gun murder than Illinois. Not just Chicago, Illinois as a whole.
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