I am waiting on two things:
1. Bernie supporters to cry every time he loses a primary or caucus and make elaborate conspiracy theories, and
2. Bernie to win the presidency, as I called November 9, 2016
Unfortunately all of the candidates are as old as your grandmother besides Buttigieg.
If this does end up being Sanders' time, I just hope he chooses a young and vibrant VP candidate.
If this does end up being Sanders' time, I just hope he chooses a young and vibrant VP candidate.
Does the VP need to be old enough to be president?
So AOC and Ilhan Omar are out then
I think Bernie needs to go more centrist with his VP pick to try and bring that side of the party with him. Picking someone like Klobuchar might ease some anxiety and help out in the rust belt.
If this does end up being Sanders' time, I just hope he chooses a young and vibrant VP candidate.
I'm betting Nina Turner (who's only 52) ends up either as VP or DNC Chair.
If this does end up being Sanders' time, I just hope he chooses a young and vibrant VP candidate.
I'm betting Nina Turner (who's only 52) ends up either as VP or DNC Chair.
Ugh.
It's like a hostage-taking. ... If that campaign was milk, you'd look at the date and throw it out.
Basically Biden will win the south but I think Bernie will win everything else.
Quite frankly, with Bernie supporting shit like this, do you REALLY want him to win?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/us/politics/bernie-sanders-chapo-trap-house.html
It would not surprise me at all if, after Sanders dies, his followers immediately point to that one Nevada case and go "LET'S TRY AND ELECT A CORPSE!!"
Sanders easily has the worst supporters. They treat him like the second coming and will minimize or spin any mistakes he makes so damn hard. Sanders is polling like shit among Hispanic voters in Florida, as badly as Trump, in fact. But Bernie Bros are still trying to spin his praise for Castro as a good thing, despite the fact that nominating Sanders will almost certainly hand Florida to the Republicans. Ever notice just white Bernie Bros tend to be? Not a coincidence.
That's not even getting into the constant conspiracy theories.
And then there's the hypocrisy. At this point in the 2016 race, Sanders had decisively lost. But yet he refused to drop out or support Clinton, planning to try to snipe superdelegates at the DNC. I lost count of how many "Bernie can still win!" headlines I saw being passed around among his supporters. And this year? They're already declaring that Warren can't win and that she's only still in the race to hurt Sanders (Bernie Bros? Spouting conspiracy theories? Shocker) and that her supporters need to rally behind Sanders. Which is literally what they whined about Clinton supporters saying in 2016.
But then you have how they treat the other candidates. I've got a friend who regularly tweets "X candidate is a Republican." Even Warren, which is absolutely absurd. Bloomberg and Gabbard aside, the idea that any Democratic candidate is a Republican is just shit stirring nonsense. Sanders has a cult. Yeah, it's better than Trump's cult in that they (or at least most of them) aren't actively wishing harm on other people, but they're not supporting Sanders for his policies or ideas, they're supporting Sanders because he's Bernie Sanders.
In other news: Buttigieg is out. I'm surprised he didn't hold on until Super Tuesday.
They're two people, and there are vastly more people supporting him than them.
If Biden wins the nomination Trump is going to be re elected.
I don't see young voters getting excited about status quo politics that we've had shoved down our throats for the past nearly forty years. He doesn't really bring anything new to the table. He's prone to gaffes and saying things that are just absurd and Trump already has dirt on him that we're going to hear ad nauseam until election day. The rust belt isn't going to vote for Biden because they didn't vote for Hillary.
If Biden wins the nomination Trump is going to be re elected.
I don't see young voters getting excited about status quo politics that we've had shoved down our throats for the past nearly forty years. He doesn't really bring anything new to the table. He's prone to gaffes and saying things that are just absurd and Trump already has dirt on him that we're going to hear ad nauseam until election day. The rust belt isn't going to vote for Biden because they didn't vote for Hillary.
I think if any of the old white men end up being nominated Trump probably wins again. Because they all have major flaws to exploit, but the media wants 1) a horse race and 2) can't visualize any other group being President.
And honestly, if Bernie wins, I suspect you'll see his coalition turn on him within two years, because he's pushed them to reject compromise. So they'll be angry when the midterms come and they don't have all the stuff Bernie promises... Just like Obama.
Biden, on the other hand, probably wastes the first two years making all the same mistakes Obama made; trying to convince the Repubs to work with him, and ignoring all of the insults they throw his way.
Boasting about the most diverse coalition in Dem history; how did it once again come down to two 75-80 year old white men?
I was actually typing my response before you posted. It just happened to still fit, so I left it alone.
Note that my comment was given current results. Quite a few districts in California have yet to report any results according to TGP.
But I do expect quite a few Sanders supporters to claim that the fix was in, even if those California districts come in and give Sanders a slight lead after tonight.
If Biden wins the nomination Trump is going to be re elected.
I don't see young voters getting excited about status quo politics that we've had shoved down our throats for the past nearly forty years. He doesn't really bring anything new to the table. He's prone to gaffes and saying things that are just absurd and Trump already has dirt on him that we're going to hear ad nauseam until election day. The rust belt isn't going to vote for Biden because they didn't vote for Hillary.
I think if any of the old white men end up being nominated Trump probably wins again. Because they all have major flaws to exploit, but the media wants 1) a horse race and 2) can't visualize any other group being President.
And honestly, if Bernie wins, I suspect you'll see his coalition turn on him within two years, because he's pushed them to reject compromise. So they'll be angry when the midterms come and they don't have all the stuff Bernie promises... Just like Obama.
Biden, on the other hand, probably wastes the first two years making all the same mistakes Obama made; trying to convince the Repubs to work with him, and ignoring all of the insults they throw his way.
Boasting about the most diverse coalition in Dem history; how did it once again come down to two 75-80 year old white men?
Bernie Sanders isn't just some same old same old white guy. He's Jewish and his base consists of young people generally , hispanic people, young black people, and especially young women. Biden's also got older black voters pretty strongly. So I wouldn't oversimplify diversity like that.
If there's any solace in this whole thing it's seeing Michael Bloomberg saying but I spent five hundred and sixty million dollars on this. How come no one's voting for me?
Sanders should not have run for President in the first place. He should have been an early endorsement for Warren or Booker and sat out. I swear the Bernie Bros are worse this time around than they were in 2016.
You can tell by the people he surrounds himself with. Have you looked at that, the self-proclaimed communist, the founders and leaders of Antifa, Black Lives Matter, Occupy Wall Street--the new SS, the modern versions of the Weather Underground terrorist organisation, are all on his campaign staff! These are not grassroot groups of Democrats; they are Marxist revolutionaries who believe in nothing short of the complete overthrow of the United States and destruction of the Constitution and the free market system. And please, let us stop calling them "Bernie Bros", because they are not my brother. They are not something that is funny. They are Bernie Bolsheviks! They are Bernie Brownshirts! That's what they are. And their revolution will result in death and misery, another Holodomor or another Holocaust or whatever we call the next great socialist atrocity.
God, Glenn Beck is such a tool.
Not all Bernie Bros are radical violent communists, but all radical violent communists are Bernie Bros.
We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.
What should Sanders do now? Luckily, his interests going forward align with those of the party – if only he can be persuaded to see it that way. So far, Sanders has failed to expand his appeal beyond the party’s left wing. His attempt to turn the primary into a referendum on “the Democratic establishment” has backfired, with many voters showing that they are more comfortable lining up behind “the establishment” than Sanders’ insurgency. If he has any chance of bouncing back, Sanders needs to quit the divisive rhetoric and begin appealing to different wings of the party. This would not only be strategically wise in the primary – it would also show the sort of flexibility required to win in November.
Even if Sanders ultimately loses the primary, the beginning of a process of reconciliation will go a long way to helping Democrats beat Trump. Biden is a flawed candidate, and one of his main problems in November will be his difficulty convincing the left wing of the party to turn out to vote for him. For prominent leftwing figures to intensify rhetoric implying that the nomination is somehow being unfairly stolen from Sanders by “the establishment” is to recklessly endanger the party’s chances in November. If such rhetoric was a viable path to a Sanders’ candidacy and perhaps to victory against Trump, it was perhaps defensible. But it is clear that it no longer is.
The US accommodate voters? Are you crazy? What of those voters might vote Democrat?
So, it looks like Jill Stein has started her traditional grifting campaign by repeating Bernie Bro rhetoric to siphon votes away from Biden in the general election. Not sure what she's trying to accomplish this year since she's not running apparently.
So, it looks like Jill Stein has started her traditional grifting campaign by repeating Bernie Bro rhetoric to siphon votes away from Biden in the general election. Not sure what she's trying to accomplish this year since she's not running apparently.
Dr. Stein's shtick at this point is "if you keep electing moderate Democrats the Republicans will get crazier and crazier and the next one of them who wins will be even more insane than Trump".
Stein's shtick is "give me MORE ass to kiss, Mr. Putin! I can do better than Mr. Trump!"
It seems like Bernie's campaign fell apart after he said Castro did some good things for Cuba. It made him seem like a communist sympathizer when people already accuse him of being a communist.
Biden has the minority vote pretty secured. Which is not surprising. Sanders' base is very white. A lot Hispanic voters were alienated by his comments about Castro and a lot of black voters see him as just another old white man telling them what to believe. If Biden wins, it's because Sanders, like in 2016, can't secure the minority vote.
Won't stop the Bernie Bros from calling Warren a spoiler. Like they're already doing. I guess it's too much to ask that they just try to realize that some people just. Don't. Like. Bernie. Sanders.
Seemed pretty damn paradisical from where I was standing. Enough I understand a Biden vote purely as wanting to return to the Obama years.
So that means it makes sense to vote for the guy who will actively make the world worse? Who can't handle any sort of crisis? Who puts his own interests before anything else? Even if the presidency was the only thing at stake, this idea of "I can't have what I want, so I'll help the fascists win" is irresponsible, at best.
I get being disappointed that your guy lost. I'm still pissed about how Warren's campaign went, myself, but this is the hand we're dealt and we have to play with it.
Keep in mind that what the exit polling makes clear is that the starkest divide in the Democratic Party this year is a generational one: Millennials and Generation X (45 and under, even 55 in some states) overwhelmingly favour Sanders, while the Boomers and the Silent Generation overwhelmingly (though not quite as overwhelmingly, made up for by the larger numbers in which they vote) favour Biden. Chalk that up to whatever you like--policy, personality, cultish behaviour, whatever--but it's generating a lot of resentment that the older generations, who have Medicare and won't have to deal with the worst effects of climate change, are stomping on the proverbial face of the candidate with the most comprehensive plans to address those issues.
Keep in mind that what the exit polling makes clear is that the starkest divide in the Democratic Party this year is a generational one: Millennials and Generation X (45 and under, even 55 in some states) overwhelmingly favour Sanders, while the Boomers and the Silent Generation overwhelmingly (though not quite as overwhelmingly, made up for by the larger numbers in which they vote) favour Biden. Chalk that up to whatever you like--policy, personality, cultish behaviour, whatever--but it's generating a lot of resentment that the older generations, who have Medicare and won't have to deal with the worst effects of climate change, are stomping on the proverbial face of the candidate with the most comprehensive plans to address those issues.
Every poll I've seen shows that the only group that went heavily for Sanders is Millenials; Gen-X went for Joe Biden as well. And Millenials also had the LEAST representation among voters.
In fact, Joe's comeback was fueled by otherwise non-voting Gen-X'ers appearing at the polls to vote for him...
He never had that authority to be denied in the first place.
Ironbite-please don't attribute power to the office that it doesn't have ok?
There are good reasons the executive branch's powers to act unilaterally were reduced after Nixon. Unfortunately, it seems like too many of us have failed to learn from history.
If Joe does lose, I feel like it will be another Hillary situation. It'll have a variety of different factors but some bitter people with a myopic worldview will exclusively blame the left generally, and "Bernie Bros" in particular, instead of looking big picture.
I would expect AOC to get the "I'd vote for a woman, but not that woman" treatment that Clinton and Warren got. The dirtbag left is more sexist than they want you to think they are. My point is that they're going to find excuses to not support people that should right what they say they want to obscure that they're just racist or sexist.
Remember, AOC will be just barely old enough to be President come January 2025.
Honestly, I feel like Sanders would be a better choice for VP.Hell no. I say this as someone whose clear favourite he is. Both Biden and Sanders would need a younger VP since there is a very real chance they would end up taking over.
Honestly, I feel like Sanders would be a better choice for VP. Everybody wants the big hat because they think its got the most influence, but the Vice President's got a fair amount more pull with the legislature than the President does. Maybe a Biden/Sanders ticket or something along those lines; mollify those on Bernie's side by the fact he'll still be in a position of significant power while giving a more approachable face to the Oval Office.
Polls came out recently that show Biden AND Sanders beating Trump.
We'll see if it holds true, but that should show that "ONLY MUH SANDERS CAN BEAT TRUMP" is not a universal sentiment.
I'd like to throw in one important observation from an outsider's perspective. I have accustomed to the political discussion and debate in the Finnish media and while there are ideological paradigms that are accepted implicitly in the coverage that is inevitable. Most of the media will lean by default towards the center ground of whatever the borders of Overton's window are in its environment. When tuning on to the American debates I expected that the implicit perspective would be from the center to far right compared to my environment.
The very scary observation I made is that the American coverage is very different. In general, the debate moderators wear this ideological bias in their sleeve instead of implicitly in the background and there is an artificial narrative construction is very clearly present the analysis parts. If a Finnish TV channel would broadcast a debate in the vein of those I watched it would be pilloried by political journalists; some moments might even end up as headlines in the yellow press.
There were moments where I felt they were channelling a mirror image of the Soviet propaganda machine. A huge difference to the more crude propaganda is that most of the time the questions and discussions were while more superficial than I've used to pretty fairly presented when you account for the different Overton's window. The actual propagandistic moments were precision strikes in between the more fair coverage. I am genuinely confused: is this really what passes as politically neutral coverage in the US?QuoteHonestly, I feel like Sanders would be a better choice for VP.Hell no. I say this as someone whose clear favourite he is. Both Biden and Sanders would need a younger VP since there is a very real chance they would end up taking over.
Edit: I just realized my username and profile image are very appropriate to this discussion. Stig Carpelan is satire of a dreadfully dry and boring political journalist from a sketch show.
Trump's approval rating is at 50 percent now. I don't know if he can be beaten in just seven months. If polls are saying Biden can beat Trump than it's really going to be close.
This is based on 538s, I guess a more accurate way to say it's disapproval rating which stands at 50.8 percent.Here:
Remember, AOC will be just barely old enough to be President come January 2025.
AOC revealed that she became disillusioned with the Bernie campaign because of Joe Rogan and Bernie's refusal to try and reach out to the rest of the Dem party, and so she started to lower the number of appearances she made for promoting him. The dirtbag left has thus turned on her, blaming her for the failure of the Sanders campaign over the last few weeks, because they're sexist pricks.
Remember, AOC will be just barely old enough to be President come January 2025.
AOC revealed that she became disillusioned with the Bernie campaign because of Joe Rogan and Bernie's refusal to try and reach out to the rest of the Dem party, and so she started to lower the number of appearances she made for promoting him. The dirtbag left has thus turned on her, blaming her for the failure of the Sanders campaign over the last few weeks, because they're sexist pricks.
All I'm seeing looking this up is shit like The Blaze (Glenn Beck's rag) and National review (which has been a rag since before I was even alive). So I don't trust its that big of a deal and feels like they're looking to sow division. It's sad if that's all it takes for her to back off because Bernie didn't even need to change any of his progressive positions to get Rogan's vote, Rogan struggles with LGBT issues but he's hardly as much of a reactionary as a few of his guests are. I love her still though b/c fuck in-fighting.
Also I dislike how some people on here are talking like Bernie supporters are cultists or that CTH is acshually this super bad thing. It feels like I'm reading a right wing reddit when I read those posts.
The people in the crowd were angry, and “Chapo Trap House” wanted them to stay that way. The five hosts of the popular socialist podcast wanted everyone to know they had all been lied to. About everything.
The media they consumed was fake news aimed to distract them from the only war worth fighting: the class war. Politesse, civility, even pleasure — those were tools of the neoliberal oppressor. The right answer is rage.
“That joy,” the Chapo co-host Will Menaker said to the crowd gathered in Iowa City on the eve of the Iowa caucus. “That’s good but it’s not as good a motivator when you’re really going to war as spite.”
“Let the hate feed you,” the co-host Amber A’Lee Frost added as the audience roared.
And it does. Especially toward other Democrats.
Supporters of former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. are “gelatinous 100-year-olds.”
Former Mayor Pete Buttigieg is “a bloodless asexual.”
“The gayest thing about him is he descends from an ethnic group that’s like a little toy dog,” Ms. A’Lee Frost said.
When Senator Elizabeth Warren’s name came up, the crowd made the sound of a snake hissing. She had accused Senator Bernie Sanders of saying that a woman could not beat President Trump, and so she is a snake.
“Yes, my sssssoldiers,” Mr. Menaker said.
Former Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg’s run appalls them. “Beat him so badly that this midget gremlin won’t even have a shot even with a trillion dollars,” Mr. Menaker said.
“Kill him,” someone shouted from the audience. These were jokes, of course. Everyone was laughing.
As Mr. Sanders rises in the polls and claims strong showings in early states, a new set of media stars is on the rise, too. Leading the pack are the hosts of “Chapo Trap House,” the Pied Pipers of the candidate’s online movement.
In their rowdy, vulgar weekly podcast, they are stoking the fires of a political insurgency led by their 78-year-old idol. The man stands for the movement, the movement is the man.
“Our boy Bernie” they call him.
The fivesome of “Chapo Trap House" are not the only bards of the new American left — there is “Red Scare” and another whose name cannot be printed — but they have led the way for a movement that together generates millions of dollars a year. They are on their way to becoming the socialist’s answer to right-wing shock jock radio. Their primary targets, in evidence at that show in Iowa, are not the Republican Party or even Mr. Trump but rather centrist liberals, whom they see as the major obstacle to a workers’ revolution.
In blurring occasionally violent humor, jovial community meetups and radical politics, they are the Tea Party reborn for progressives, and for their fans the appeal is in a bawdy offensive balance to cautious mainstream liberal politics.
They are known collectively as the Dirtbag Left, a shorthand they embrace that winkingly dispenses with any notion of liberal purity or inclusion, a defense mechanism that doubles as a nickname.
I am often disheartened, however, to see support for identity politics and intersectionality reduced to buzzwords. I am supporting Bernie Sanders for president because I believe that his campaign and his understanding of politics complements the priorities that women of color defined decades ago.
You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "Nigger"--that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights, and all that stuff. And you're getting so abstract now you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is blacks get hurt worse than whites. ... "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."
And cue the liberals crying that now we'll have 4 more years of Trump. THE ELECTION HASN'T EVEN HAPPENED AND YOU'RE ALREADY CONCEDING YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKERS! WHERE THE FUCK WERE YOU IN THE PRIMARIES!?
Ironbite-I hate the Left some times.
And cue the liberals crying that now we'll have 4 more years of Trump. THE ELECTION HASN'T EVEN HAPPENED AND YOU'RE ALREADY CONCEDING YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKERS! WHERE THE FUCK WERE YOU IN THE PRIMARIES!?
Ironbite-I hate the Left some times.
They are in the anger phase of coping with the situation. I don't care what they say now, I care what they do when the election comes. If they act at all like in the last election the majority will go to the polls to vote for Biden.
And cue the liberals crying that now we'll have 4 more years of Trump. THE ELECTION HASN'T EVEN HAPPENED AND YOU'RE ALREADY CONCEDING YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKERS! WHERE THE FUCK WERE YOU IN THE PRIMARIES!?
Ironbite-I hate the Left some times.
And cue the liberals crying that now we'll have 4 more years of Trump. THE ELECTION HASN'T EVEN HAPPENED AND YOU'RE ALREADY CONCEDING YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKERS! WHERE THE FUCK WERE YOU IN THE PRIMARIES!?
Ironbite-I hate the Left some times.
They already have websites set up for not voting Dem because "BERNIE LOST!"... And they've got #DemExit trending on Twitter...
Moronic idiots. If Trump wins again, even if he actually leaves in 4 years (I wouldn't put it past him to try and become King), it'll probably lead to him replacing RBG and Breyer with two more Kavanaughs. With a 7-2 majority on the Supreme Court, you can forget about Bernie's ENTIRE AGENDA for a generation; they'll declare the whole thing unConstitutional...
Just wondering, how many people in Clinton's camp blamed Clinton for her loss?
And to Bernie’s supporters: I know that I need to earn your votes. And I know that might take time. But I want you to know that I see you, I hear you, and I understand the urgency of this moment. I hope you'll join us. You're more than welcome: You're needed.
Speaking for myself, I do believe that Bernie voters owe Biden their vote. Well no, they don't owe Biden, they owe all the people who would die from loss of healthcare, for racism and violence, from potential needless wars like the one Trump almost started with Iran, from rampant climate change etc if Trump gets reelected.
There are perfectly good reasons to be unhappy that Bernie lost, but not voting Biden is voting Trump. I agree that the number of bernie supporters who didn't vote for Clinton is blown out of proportion, but given how tight US politics is even a small group can tilt the balance threw action/inaction.
"Politicians have to earn votes" doesn't apply when Nazis are on the march and the apocalypse is around the corner.
I maintain that it is massively irresponsible to refuse to vote blue because you can't have your preferred candidate. The game sucks, but we have to play it. I don't like it, either.1
(If you look at Canadian federal elections in 2006, 2008 and 2011, the share of the popular vote among parties getting either 5% or electing one member enjoyed by left-wing parties--Liberals, New Democrats, and Greens in the latter two--went from 50.5% in 2006, to 51.8% in 2008, to 53.9% in 2011. But each time the Conservatives got more seats, winning a majority in 2011. Then a bunch of NDP and Green voters went for the Liberals in 2015 because of Justin Trudeau's promise to bring in proportional representation and the realization, once again, that the NDP and Greens can't crack the Liberals' ~18% base... on which he promptly reneged when Parliament didn't recommend the system he wanted, and used the majority those same voters, who voted for him on the promise of proportional representation, had given him to kill any chance at getting proportional representation. Goddammit I despise the Liberal Party, very nearly as much as I despise the Conservative Party.)
Almost half of non-voters in the 2016 presidential election were non-white, even though they compose only one-fourth of the voting population. Even more extreme is the data on class: more than half of non-voters — 56% — are quite poor, making less than $30,000, even though that income group constitutes just over one-fourth of the voting population. The people who choose to vote are disproportionately privileged; those who are non-privileged choose disproportionately not to vote.
"People are willing to listen to what you have to say. You just need to step up and vote---"
"BUT I WANT I WANT I WANT I WANT I WANT WANT WANT WANT WANT!!!"
Some statistical information for the non-voter conversation. (https://theintercept.com/2020/04/09/nonvoters-are-not-privileged-they-are-largely-lower-income-non-white-and-dissatisfied-with-the-two-parties/) In 2016, the nonvoters were not privileged liberals. Instead, they were the underprivileged: poor, young, mostly non-whites.QuoteAlmost half of non-voters in the 2016 presidential election were non-white, even though they compose only one-fourth of the voting population. Even more extreme is the data on class: more than half of non-voters — 56% — are quite poor, making less than $30,000, even though that income group constitutes just over one-fourth of the voting population. The people who choose to vote are disproportionately privileged; those who are non-privileged choose disproportionately not to vote.
These non-voters are whom Sanders campaign targeted with some success. If they don't vote for Biden, it's not because they are privileged and petty. It's because they don't trust either party is interested in improving their lives, Sanders's campaign and policies are what brought them to the voting booth in the first place. For the Democratic party to have a future after the baby boomer generation is gone they need to attract these voters and Sanders showed what type of policies might do that.
Some statistical information for the non-voter conversation. (https://theintercept.com/2020/04/09/nonvoters-are-not-privileged-they-are-largely-lower-income-non-white-and-dissatisfied-with-the-two-parties/) In 2016, the nonvoters were not privileged liberals. Instead, they were the underprivileged: poor, young, mostly non-whites.QuoteAlmost half of non-voters in the 2016 presidential election were non-white, even though they compose only one-fourth of the voting population. Even more extreme is the data on class: more than half of non-voters — 56% — are quite poor, making less than $30,000, even though that income group constitutes just over one-fourth of the voting population. The people who choose to vote are disproportionately privileged; those who are non-privileged choose disproportionately not to vote.
These non-voters are whom Sanders campaign targeted with some success. If they don't vote for Biden, it's not because they are privileged and petty. It's because they don't trust either party is interested in improving their lives, Sanders's campaign and policies are what brought them to the voting booth in the first place. For the Democratic party to have a future after the baby boomer generation is gone they need to attract these voters and Sanders showed what type of policies might do that.
I'd say a good portion of that is voter suppression; it works really well on the poor, and we know the Repubs specifically target the black and Latino communities.
A separate Pew survey, in 2017, of people who are not registered to vote found exactly the opposite: that people who refrain from participating in the electoral process largely do so because they are dissatisfied with the choices or believe voting will not change their lives. As Pew put it: “The unregistered were more likely to say they do not vote because they dislike politics or believe voting will not make a difference, while people who are registered but vote infrequently say they do not vote more often because they are not informed enough about the candidates or issues.”
Indeed, that Pew survey of unregistered voters found that the most common cause for not registering is that they do not want to vote, and the most common reasons have nothing to do with voter suppression and everything to do with beliefs about the worthlessness of the elections. As Pew put it, “forty-four percent of eligible unregistered individuals say they do not want to vote,” while “25 percent say they are unregistered because they have not been inspired by a candidate or issue.”
(If you look at Canadian federal elections in 2006, 2008 and 2011, the share of the popular vote among parties getting either 5% or electing one member enjoyed by left-wing parties--Liberals, New Democrats, and Greens in the latter two--went from 50.5% in 2006, to 51.8% in 2008, to 53.9% in 2011. But each time the Conservatives got more seats, winning a majority in 2011. Then a bunch of NDP and Green voters went for the Liberals in 2015 because of Justin Trudeau's promise to bring in proportional representation and the realization, once again, that the NDP and Greens can't crack the Liberals' ~18% base... on which he promptly reneged when Parliament didn't recommend the system he wanted, and used the majority those same voters, who voted for him on the promise of proportional representation, had given him to kill any chance at getting proportional representation. Goddammit I despise the Liberal Party, very nearly as much as I despise the Conservative Party.)
I voted for the NDP's in the provincial election, but the fact is the NDP's don't pick up votes because when they actually GET a chance to run things, they tend to fuck it up. Not as bad as the CPoC (it'd be hard to figure out how to fuck up worse than THAT), but enough that they rarely keep any gains they manage to achieve. Bob Rae alone likely put Ontario out of reach for them for a generation...
And I don't know if you've noticed, but the problem with a lot of people in the Sanders wing in the US is that they have the same views on compromise as the Republican segment do; that it's the worst possible thing you could do. Just look at their reaction to Warren's plan to get to M4A... The end result is the same as Bernie's, but because it wasn't one huge step, but a series of steps, they screamed that it was selling out...
This temper tantrum over Bernie bowing out is in fact their view on compromise taken to the candidate level; ie, "Give us the candidate WE demand!"...
(If you look at Canadian federal elections in 2006, 2008 and 2011, the share of the popular vote among parties getting either 5% or electing one member enjoyed by left-wing parties--Liberals, New Democrats, and Greens in the latter two--went from 50.5% in 2006, to 51.8% in 2008, to 53.9% in 2011. But each time the Conservatives got more seats, winning a majority in 2011. Then a bunch of NDP and Green voters went for the Liberals in 2015 because of Justin Trudeau's promise to bring in proportional representation and the realization, once again, that the NDP and Greens can't crack the Liberals' ~18% base... on which he promptly reneged when Parliament didn't recommend the system he wanted, and used the majority those same voters, who voted for him on the promise of proportional representation, had given him to kill any chance at getting proportional representation. Goddammit I despise the Liberal Party, very nearly as much as I despise the Conservative Party.)
I voted for the NDP's in the provincial election, but the fact is the NDP's don't pick up votes because when they actually GET a chance to run things, they tend to fuck it up. Not as bad as the CPoC (it'd be hard to figure out how to fuck up worse than THAT), but enough that they rarely keep any gains they manage to achieve. Bob Rae alone likely put Ontario out of reach for them for a generation...
And I don't know if you've noticed, but the problem with a lot of people in the Sanders wing in the US is that they have the same views on compromise as the Republican segment do; that it's the worst possible thing you could do. Just look at their reaction to Warren's plan to get to M4A... The end result is the same as Bernie's, but because it wasn't one huge step, but a series of steps, they screamed that it was selling out...
This temper tantrum over Bernie bowing out is in fact their view on compromise taken to the candidate level; ie, "Give us the candidate WE demand!"...
My criticism was not of Liberal voters--I try never to criticize voters for voting how they voted (or didn't vote), whatever I may think of their reasons for doing so. My criticism was of the Liberal Party and their betrayal of their promise of electoral reform.
As for conservatives being uncompromising... if the Left will compromise and the Right will not, then you either stick with the status quo or move in a conservative direction. The Left loses in this scenario, and hence many have concluded that the only approach to get their preferred policies enacted is to be similarly uncompromising.
EDIT: I may elaborate later; I don't have time to do so at the moment.
Sanders' press secretary, almost two days after he's conceded, is still on Twitter actively campaigning against Joe Biden, which helps exactly one person: Donald Trump. This is EXACTLY what Phoenix is talking about. Instead of taking wins where they can and making steps towards the rest, if they can't have EVERYTHING, they'd rather have nothing.
"People are willing to listen to what you have to say. You just need to step up and vote---"
"BUT I WANT I WANT I WANT I WANT I WANT WANT WANT WANT WANT!!!"
Yeah, that's my take on most of this as well. Bernie doesn't compromise. His base considers that a strength; "He'll keep fighting for what you DESERVE!"
But politics is mainly about compromise. The problem with the US right now is that the Right refuses to compromise on anything. I don't think the same attitude coming from the Left helps.
Bernie has trouble breaking out of his 30% base because he won't compromise, and because his surrogates and supporters won't compromise, and to a lot of people on the outside, that looks a lot like dismissing their concerns...Some statistical information for the non-voter conversation. (https://theintercept.com/2020/04/09/nonvoters-are-not-privileged-they-are-largely-lower-income-non-white-and-dissatisfied-with-the-two-parties/) In 2016, the nonvoters were not privileged liberals. Instead, they were the underprivileged: poor, young, mostly non-whites.QuoteAlmost half of non-voters in the 2016 presidential election were non-white, even though they compose only one-fourth of the voting population. Even more extreme is the data on class: more than half of non-voters — 56% — are quite poor, making less than $30,000, even though that income group constitutes just over one-fourth of the voting population. The people who choose to vote are disproportionately privileged; those who are non-privileged choose disproportionately not to vote.
These non-voters are whom Sanders campaign targeted with some success. If they don't vote for Biden, it's not because they are privileged and petty. It's because they don't trust either party is interested in improving their lives, Sanders's campaign and policies are what brought them to the voting booth in the first place. For the Democratic party to have a future after the baby boomer generation is gone they need to attract these voters and Sanders showed what type of policies might do that.
I'd say a good portion of that is voter suppression; it works really well on the poor, and we know the Repubs specifically target the black and Latino communities.
Elizabeth Warren would probably be the best choice. She's (relatively) young, and could really get progressives on board more than, say, Harris.
I've heard speculation that the plan is for Biden to pick Hillary as his running mate, then resign shortly after he wins the election. We should take this prediction with a massive grain of salt.
Speaking of, who would you like to see as Biden's running mate?
I've heard speculation that the plan is for Biden to pick Hillary as his running mate, then resign shortly after he wins the election. We should take this prediction with a massive grain of salt.
Speaking of, who would you like to see as Biden's running mate?
Whoever you heard that from is pants on head, huffing paint fumes insane.
Ahh yes. Let's unite around the pedophile.
Ironbite-GOOD TAKE DIRTBAG LEFT!
Apparently one of the reasons she was let go by Bernie was she supported a pedo. Or is a pedo. I never got a straight answer. Regardless, she's not exactly Sander's favorite person as he refereed to her as his FORMER press secretary.
Ironbite-with a massive emphasis on Former
Believe it or not, we’re the majority of the country which is why both the Republicans and the Democrats do ‘their best’ to court our votes...
Ah, fuck, that guy. The guy who's trying to primary Pelosi by appealing to the Bernie or Busters who think she's just as right wing as the Republicans. I can't say I'm surprised that he's jumping on the #DropOutBiden train.
Also, after four years of people saying "hey, maybe we shouldn't armchair diagnose Trump with mental illness," where the hell are those people pointing out how many people have been armchair diagnosing Biden?
Dems just cancelled the New York Primary.
Ironbite-time for the Bernie Bros Outrage Machine to start up but is anyone really paying attention to the Democrat Primary?
Don't get me wrong. Voting for Biden is ENTIRELY a strategic move. Biden is a creep, at best and has no business running for President. But if it's between this asshole and letting fascism continue to run America, then I'm fucking sucking it up and voting for Biden. Like I said, I'm not asking people to actively endorse Biden, or even like him, I'm asking them to do their part to fight fascism.
Hey remember when that same reporter broke a small little story involving a Palo Alto and Stanford professor and a then-judge on the DC Circuit Court?
Funny how many of the people who supported Dr. Ford are now dismissing Ms. Reade.
Hey remember when that same reporter broke a small little story involving a Palo Alto and Stanford professor and a then-judge on the DC Circuit Court?
Funny how many of the people who supported Dr. Ford are now dismissing Ms. Reade.
The problem with Ms. Reade's accusations is there's a mountain of evidence that she switched to Bernie Sanders just before throwing this out into the world. Where was she in 08 or 12 when Biden was running for President/running for reelection? Why now? Dr. Ford came out because Kavanauah needed to be stopped and everyone was throwing everything at him because he's so unqualified. Then there's the fact that the Orange Piss Pot has 60+ accusers and nobody seems to bat an eye at that. Really this is what hand we've been dealt with right now.
Ironbite-I don't want to vote for Biden, but here we are.
I now look forward to three months of Biden supporters insisting that a vote for Amash is a vote for Trump and three months of Trump supporters insisting that a vote for Amash is a vote for Biden.
Ms. Reade may well be completely full of shit.
The problem is that many of the people who screamed "BELIEVE WOMEN" when it came to Dr. Ford's allegations against then-Judge Kavanaugh are now calling into question Ms. Reade's allegations against former Vice President Biden, and did so almost immediately, before any serious vetting of Ms. Reade's claims had occurred.
Furthermore, a major group set up to help victims of sexual harassment with regards to #MeToo declined to give legal aid to Ms. Reade in her case, with the stated reason not being that her accusations were baseless (which, again, they may well be) but that doing so would put their tax status in legal jeopardy since her claims were against a Presidential candidate, which is a decidedly more dubious rationale.
So even if Ms. Reade is lying through her teeth about these claims, the way in which the people who were adamant that Dr. Ford be believed were immediately apathetic, if not hostile, to Ms. Reade sure as hell makes it look like they were just playing partisan games with #MeToo and "BELIEVE WOMEN" and didn't actually mean it.
If your standard changes depending on the situation--if you believe those women who accuse men you don't like but disbelieve women who accuse men you do like, for instance--you don't actually have a standard.
EDIT: The same can be said of people who point to the accusations of sexual assault against Donald Trump while ignoring those against Bill Clinton... and vice versa, of course.
...an outnumbered set of wackos with big mouths...
Tara Reade gets more and more discredited as the days go on.
‘Manipulative, deceitful, user’: Tara Reade left a trail of aggrieved acquaintances
A number of those who crossed paths with Biden’s accuser say they remember two things: She spoke favorably about her time working for Biden, and she left them feeling duped.
Harriet Wrye did a double take the first time she saw Tara Reade on television lodging sexual assault allegations against Joe Biden.
“Jim, that’s Tara,” the 79-year-old author and psychologist called out to her husband, “but she has a different name.”
Wrye and her husband knew Reade as Tara McCabe, the woman who had rented a yurt on their 12-acre California property and tended to the couple’s horses — and her own — for about 10 months beginning in 2017. They were well-acquainted with their former tenant, who frequently knocked on the door of their home seeking emotional support, asking for financial help or forgiveness for late rent payments, which they granted.
“I would sit down and talk to her and try to be encouraging and supportive,” said Wrye, who noted Reade “had heart and some good qualities.”
“This lack of money was hugely problematic for her, she was always on the ropes in that way.”
Reade had spoken highly of Biden, the former boss who employed her as a staff assistant from late 1992 to August 1993, and never mentioned assault or harassment, Wrye recalls. But what Wrye remembers most is that by the time Reade left their property and moved on, Wrye felt burned.
After her husband suffered a brain injury that forced the couple to sell the property, Wrye said, Reade turned on them.
“She became really difficult,” Wrye said. “She said, ‘You’re going to have to pay me to get me to leave.’”
“She was manipulative,” said Wrye, a self-described feminist and social activist. “She was always saying she was going to get it together, but she couldn’t. And ‘could you help her’?”
...
Reade called Klett in 2019 after first publicly lodging allegations that Biden inappropriately touched her. At the time, Reade did not share details of an assault.
“I felt two things when she contacted me: that she was feeling me out to see if I would represent her pro bono. And there was a sense that she was trying to plant a story with me, so she could later say: ‘I told the story to this attorney I worked with,’” Klett said.
“I support women who have been assaulted. Unfortunately, I cannot support Tara Reade,” she said. “When she first contacted me regarding this issue, she could not provide enough credible information. And since that time the story has evolved in the media. I question her motives.”
Amash is likely going to pull more voters from Trump than he is from Biden because, you know, fucking Libertarian Party. So... for once voting third party isn't a completely black and white thing. That said, while I have some level of respect for Amash for being the only Republican (yes, I know he was kicked out of the party) in Congress willing to stand up against Trump, he is NOT a justifiable alternative to voting for Biden. Though I'm not exactly complaining if he leaks votes away from Trump.
https://www.axios.com/bernie-sanders-defund-police-091387de-e132-458e-b048-b367cb44ce18.html?fbclid=IwAR36GQnn3Bv8EA1peqssSPFms7lbUfkRW4EuR8rar3xsC4HLwWo9ML2wBEg
Curious that I have yet to see any Bernie Bros or Bernie or Busters criticize Bernie for agreeing with Biden almost entirely on police reform. They're both dead wrong on it, but it really would be nice to see them apply the same standards they have for Biden to 78 year old Jesus.
I am amazed at the amount of people I see saying something like "I vote for Trump because I heard that Biden did [thing that Trump has also done]."
Yes, there are Bernie supporters who are upset about Bernie for things as simple as even daring to compromise with the Democrats, but like I said, the "Bernie was the compromise" horseshit pisses me off for other reasons.Why? If you have actual leftist policies regarding the conflict between capital and labor it's a very logical stance. Sanders was a moderate left candidate among centrist/moderate right crowd* in the primary. It's not Sanders who is extreme in his politics (his radicalism is nowadays just rhetorical - "political revolution" etc), it's the American political landscape that has moved to the right. When that happens, what is "common sense" in political world follows along.
Even Noam Chomsky has endorsed Biden (https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/noam-chomskys-advice-palestine-advocates-vote-biden-keep-pressure) because the reality is that Trump MUST be removed and is too dangerous to be allowed to have a second term. I don't believe for a second that Chomsky is happy about it, but he's calling for people act strategically based on a bad option and an absolutely atrocious option.
And that's exactly why it irks me. No one is asking people to like Biden or even actively campaign for him. "Bernie was the compromise" is, ironically, a way to excuse a refusal to compromise. It comes across as saying "well, we can't fix it immediately, no point in trying" while the Trump administration keeps trying to push towards becoming a dictatorship.
Yes, I'm advocating for vote blue no matter who, but that's because vote blue no matter who doesn't mean that the Democrats are all good or right, but because the Republican party has become so fucking corrupt that just about anyone is an improvement.
such as implementing the TPP, which Clinton was calling the "gold standard" of trade deals until Sanders pretty much forced her to be against it, and which Obama continued to advocate for even then
Please. (https://twitter.com/EmpressJess777/status/1271992617610420225?s=20) I shouldn't have to point out when I'm making generalizations or using hyperbole. It would be absurd to assume that all Bernie supporters are applying a double standard, but that doesn't make the ones that do any less hypocritical. For my experience, with one exception who conveniently stayed quiet until I posted about it on Facebook, not one of the Bernie supporter friends I have have said anything about it, even after it was directly pointed out to them. And the one that did acknowledge it? She's very much in the "Bernie was the compromise" camp that irks for a number of reasons.
And what do I see Twitter Bernie Bros doing? Latching onto the part where Biden said he wants to put $300 million into funding reforms while happily ignoring that Bernie agrees with him almost entirely on this issue. Which is the same thing they do every time Biden says something. They take his statement out of context to make him look bad. "I would veto Medicare 4 All?" "Aim for the legs?" And these are just the tip of the iceberg.
Yes, there are Bernie supporters who are upset about Bernie for things as simple as even daring to compromise with the Democrats, but like I said, the "Bernie was the compromise" horseshit pisses me off for other reasons.
Obama did not directly lead to Trump.
Obama did not directly lead to Trump.
Well, he kind of did, in that a big portion of Trump's support was driven by racism, and a lot of racists were angry that a black man managed to get elected President twice...
I can't read that in any other way than you saying that Obama lead to Trump.
Biden WON the primary! There's a remarkable difference there. Plus that very much rings of "NO U! NO U! NO U!!"
So what? What's your great solution to this?
I remember seeing attack ads on this forum like 10 years ago and even back then I said that in Finnish elections something like that would not be acceptable
Honestly, one of the issues with politics in USA is that the GOP will always fall in line to support whoever is their candidate and no matter what their agenda is. Meanwhile, the Democrats have much more nuanced views and their voters have a spine so they may refuse to support people and causes that they dilike, but at the same time... The Democrats that do so, afford to do this because of the priviledged position. "What's that? The opponent is slowly removing rights from LGBT people? Sucks to be them I guess, I'm not gonna vote for someone just because they have a D next to their name."The Democratic party has our Social Democrats and National Coalition inside the same party and the people in charge are mainly NCP. In a healthy system they would be two different parties. From SDP's perspective an unconditional unity means submitting to NCP so instead, they need to extract every concession they get before allying with NCP against the total nutjobs. From NCP's perspective you want people to see SDP's demands as unreasonable and yourself as the sensible ones to have as little pressure as possible to give those concessions.
And although for a foreigner like me, both parties have really toxic primaries (I remember seeing attack ads on this forum like 10 years ago and even back then I said that in Finnish elections something like that would not be acceptable) for some reason the Republicans will ignore these grievances as soon as the winner is decided while the Democrats will keep on splintering and losing. Don't the Democrats already hold a massive majority and only lose because of gerrymandering, voting suppression and them simply not voting? The first two issues aren't their fault but the last one is something that just seems so odd. All those people who refuse to vote for the "lesser evil" letting the country slide further and further right, despite that supposedly being against their interests.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Shahid-Buttar-Nancy-Pelosi-s-election-15424675.php
Shahid Buttar, opponent of Nancy Pelosi, has been accused of sexual assault.
Meanwhile, this is how his fans respond; https://i.redd.it/zijukvko1bd51.jpg
https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Shahid-Buttar-Nancy-Pelosi-s-election-15424675.php
Shahid Buttar, opponent of Nancy Pelosi, has been accused of sexual assault.
Meanwhile, this is how his fans respond; https://i.redd.it/zijukvko1bd51.jpg
He seriously said he agreed with Trump on every single tweet?
Or that he just "agrees" with everyone commenting on them?
I was hoping for Stacy Abrhams but I'll take Harris.
Ironbite-least the VP debate is gonna be a fireworks show.
Well obviously not, so they'll have to exhume her from Pence's basement and drag that carcass all the way to the front row of seats.
Still won't stop a friend of mine from bitching about how "she's a cop" to everyone because he falls into basically every stereotype of the Bernie or Buster you can think of.
Those guys would only be satisfied with Bernie (fuck age, right?) or Nina Turner as the VP...
Of course not. Birtherism was always just thinly veiled racism.
And, as noted in the article I posted about her, it's no secret that Sen. Harris spent a good deal of her childhood in Montreal.
Of course not. Birtherism was always just thinly veiled racism.
And, as noted in the article I posted about her, it's no secret that Sen. Harris spent a good deal of her childhood in Montreal.
Thankfully, that matters fuck all since she was born in Oakland.
Ya know, it really goes to show Dump's estimation of Biden's intelligence, thinking the guy would be stupid enough to choose someone who can't even be allowed into the office as his VP.