Author Topic: Awesome Protest Signs  (Read 606513 times)

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Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: Awesome Protest Signs
« Reply #2235 on: July 27, 2014, 07:19:34 pm »
WHAT?! I just asked a legitimate question! No naivete at all! I just don't understand. If it's all about making lots of money why not just get into the same business you're against?! Why the needless war, pollution & destruction. You can't enjoy you're wealth, coke & whores if you live in a wasteland!

Two reasons.
1. They still make MORE money this way.
2. (They think) the world won't be that bad until after they're dead, so, fuck you, got mine.

It's often just a lot more mundane than that. These people are are involved in old well established businesses that have been doing things one way for an incredibly long time. They are not young adventurers, they are very careful, conservative people who have figured out a way to do things that works and it is only natural that they are going to do what they can to keep themselves in their comfort zone. To make matters worse, they tend to surround themselves with people who think like they do so the entire organization thinks one way which makes it even more resistant to change.

Green energy is a new scary unknown that they don't know how to deal with. They would have to learn an entirely new system, and, very importantly, they would have to play catch-up with organizations that are already experts in the field. Not only do they not know how to do this due to the nature of the organizations, but a good conservative tactician will not engage in a reckless head to head confrontation with a superior foe unless absolutely forced to so rather than learn and hope for the best they go with what they are good at.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Awesome Protest Signs
« Reply #2236 on: July 27, 2014, 07:26:08 pm »
WHAT?! I just asked a legitimate question! No naivete at all! I just don't understand. If it's all about making lots of money why not just get into the same business you're against?! Why the needless war, pollution & destruction. You can't enjoy you're wealth, coke & whores if you live in a wasteland!

Two reasons.
1. They still make MORE money this way.
2. (They think) the world won't be that bad until after they're dead, so, fuck you, got mine.

It's often just a lot more mundane than that. These people are are involved in old well established businesses that have been doing things one way for an incredibly long time. They are not young adventurers, they are very careful, conservative people who have figured out a way to do things that works and it is only natural that they are going to do what they can to keep themselves in their comfort zone. To make matters worse, they tend to surround themselves with people who think like they do so the entire organization thinks one way which makes it even more resistant to change.

Green energy is a new scary unknown that they don't know how to deal with. They would have to learn an entirely new system, and, very importantly, they would have to play catch-up with organizations that are already experts in the field. Not only do they not know how to do this due to the nature of the organizations, but a good conservative tactician will not engage in a reckless head to head confrontation with a superior foe unless absolutely forced to so rather than learn and hope for the best they go with what they are good at.
Exactly.  They're stuck in their ways.  But there's a Chinese proverb: "the tree that does not sway with the wind will be toppled".  They'll have to change eventually.  It's either that or oblivion.

Offline ironbite

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Re: Awesome Protest Signs
« Reply #2237 on: July 27, 2014, 08:52:23 pm »
There's also the fact that the Motor City will never get that industry back.  It's far cheaper to go to other countries with laxer labor laws then it is to set up a factory in the US.

Ironbite-this Water nonsense is just not gonna get it back no matter what you think.

Offline Barbarella

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Re: Awesome Protest Signs
« Reply #2238 on: July 30, 2014, 06:35:07 pm »
WHAT?! I just asked a legitimate question! No naivete at all! I just don't understand. If it's all about making lots of money why not just get into the same business you're against?! Why the needless war, pollution & destruction. You can't enjoy you're wealth, coke & whores if you live in a wasteland!

Two reasons.
1. They still make MORE money this way.
2. (They think) the world won't be that bad until after they're dead, so, fuck you, got mine.

It's often just a lot more mundane than that. These people are are involved in old well established businesses that have been doing things one way for an incredibly long time. They are not young adventurers, they are very careful, conservative people who have figured out a way to do things that works and it is only natural that they are going to do what they can to keep themselves in their comfort zone. To make matters worse, they tend to surround themselves with people who think like they do so the entire organization thinks one way which makes it even more resistant to change.

Green energy is a new scary unknown that they don't know how to deal with. They would have to learn an entirely new system, and, very importantly, they would have to play catch-up with organizations that are already experts in the field. Not only do they not know how to do this due to the nature of the organizations, but a good conservative tactician will not engage in a reckless head to head confrontation with a superior foe unless absolutely forced to so rather than learn and hope for the best they go with what they are good at.
Exactly.  They're stuck in their ways.  But there's a Chinese proverb: "the tree that does not sway with the wind will be toppled".  They'll have to change eventually.  It's either that or oblivion.

Indeed.

I guess they stick to their present thing because...
A. It works for them, why change?
B. Change is too risky.
C. They want to stand out rather than be like similar competing countries. I guess it makes competition easier.

But I agree with you.....They will have no choice but to change, eventually.


I do have a question. Why is Ironbite always so contrarian? Has Ironbite ever endorsed any hope & positive stuff?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 06:37:32 pm by SpukiKitty »

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Awesome Protest Signs
« Reply #2239 on: July 31, 2014, 07:37:48 am »
I don't know.  Maybe I'll ask him.

Offline guizonde

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Re: Awesome Protest Signs
« Reply #2240 on: July 31, 2014, 10:24:14 am »
I do have a question. Why is Ironbite always so contrarian? Has Ironbite ever endorsed any hope & positive stuff?

i thought he was the resident naysayer to keep us all in check?

that, or he's deadpan snarky, because he doesn't seem like a real "doom and gloom" guy like brendan rizzo was, for example.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Awesome Protest Signs
« Reply #2241 on: July 31, 2014, 10:38:37 am »
I think its part snark and part trying to keep folks on the level.  As the saying goes, too much of a good thing can kill ya.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: Awesome Protest Signs
« Reply #2242 on: July 31, 2014, 10:48:36 am »
There's also the fact I'm a cynic and find your blind optimism a bit disturbing.

There's wanting to make sure people have jobs and then there's asserting that an industry will come back because water is being shut off.

Ironbite-you might as well pray because it's doing the same damn thing.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 11:22:32 am by ironbite »

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Awesome Protest Signs
« Reply #2243 on: July 31, 2014, 01:21:49 pm »
You know, in Ancient Rome, a triumphant general had a servant standing behind him, saying "remember you will die".  That kind of reminds me of Ironbite's role.

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Re: Awesome Protest Signs
« Reply #2244 on: July 31, 2014, 02:49:24 pm »
You know, in Ancient Rome, a triumphant general had a servant standing behind him, saying "remember you will die".  That kind of reminds me of Ironbite's role.

We should institute a law for something similar, applied to politicians and anyone with the power to set policy in a company. Something like, "Are you sure that's a good idea?" A professional Devil's Advocate.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Awesome Protest Signs
« Reply #2245 on: July 31, 2014, 04:31:37 pm »
You know, in Ancient Rome, a triumphant general had a servant standing behind him, saying "remember you will die".  That kind of reminds me of Ironbite's role.

We should institute a law for something similar, applied to politicians and anyone with the power to set policy in a company. Something like, "Are you sure that's a good idea?" A professional Devil's Advocate.
I think that would be a good idea.

Offline Barbarella

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Re: Awesome Protest Signs
« Reply #2246 on: July 31, 2014, 07:22:27 pm »
True. That said, I still believe in hope & humanity's better half.

But I agree with a "Devil's Advocate" for authority figures.

As for wee peons like ourselves, we need all the more we can get.

Also, I doubt the water protests will get the automotive companies back but it might start something.

I'm not sure but I'm hopeful.

Well, we'll vote the wingnuts out of office this Fall then PRESSURE them to to bring back manufacturing to America. They don't need to neglect India, China, etc. In fact, having more manufacturing in both the U.S. & those other countries would mean MORE money, wouldn't it? Why should it be "either or"?

There should be HUGE taxes for outsourcing. Or an amendment or act that states that if a company expands to other countries, they are not to close down the home branch! There must be some manufacturing here! If the CEOs are too el cheapo to pay the extra money for regulations & decent pay then they should be FORCED TOO!

We need an amendment to keep plants open here! I can't see why they can't just be open here & in other countries. More plants mean more money made!

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Awesome Protest Signs
« Reply #2247 on: July 31, 2014, 07:52:52 pm »
True. That said, I still believe in hope & humanity's better half.

But I agree with a "Devil's Advocate" for authority figures.

As for wee peons like ourselves, we need all the more we can get.

Also, I doubt the water protests will get the automotive companies back but it might start something.

I'm not sure but I'm hopeful.

Well, we'll vote the wingnuts out of office this Fall then PRESSURE them to to bring back manufacturing to America. They don't need to neglect India, China, etc. In fact, having more manufacturing in both the U.S. & those other countries would mean MORE money, wouldn't it? Why should it be "either or"?

There should be HUGE taxes for outsourcing. Or an amendment or act that states that if a company expands to other countries, they are not to close down the home branch! There must be some manufacturing here! If the CEOs are too el cheapo to pay the extra money for regulations & decent pay then they should be FORCED TOO!

We need an amendment to keep plants open here! I can't see why they can't just be open here & in other countries. More plants mean more money made!
Unfortunately, all too many in the current business class seem to be too focused on the short-term.  That, and the fact that they only care about lining their pockets.  Say what you will about the 19th Century robber barons, but at least they were genuinely invested in their businesses.  These guys, however, seem only concerned with enriching themselves as much as possible, and if their businesses collapse, they can just lazily drift to the ground on their golden parachutes.

Of course, not all businesspeople are like this.  Look at Warren Buffet, or W. Craig Jelinek.  But there seems to be a depressingly large number of businesspeople who took all the wrong lessons from Oliver Stone's Wall Street.

Offline Barbarella

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Re: Awesome Protest Signs
« Reply #2248 on: July 31, 2014, 08:23:05 pm »
True. That said, I still believe in hope & humanity's better half.

But I agree with a "Devil's Advocate" for authority figures.

As for wee peons like ourselves, we need all the more we can get.

Also, I doubt the water protests will get the automotive companies back but it might start something.

I'm not sure but I'm hopeful.

Well, we'll vote the wingnuts out of office this Fall then PRESSURE them to to bring back manufacturing to America. They don't need to neglect India, China, etc. In fact, having more manufacturing in both the U.S. & those other countries would mean MORE money, wouldn't it? Why should it be "either or"?

There should be HUGE taxes for outsourcing. Or an amendment or act that states that if a company expands to other countries, they are not to close down the home branch! There must be some manufacturing here! If the CEOs are too el cheapo to pay the extra money for regulations & decent pay then they should be FORCED TOO!

We need an amendment to keep plants open here! I can't see why they can't just be open here & in other countries. More plants mean more money made!
Unfortunately, all too many in the current business class seem to be too focused on the short-term.  That, and the fact that they only care about lining their pockets.  Say what you will about the 19th Century robber barons, but at least they were genuinely invested in their businesses.  These guys, however, seem only concerned with enriching themselves as much as possible, and if their businesses collapse, they can just lazily drift to the ground on their golden parachutes.

Of course, not all businesspeople are like this.  Look at Warren Buffet, or W. Craig Jelinek.  But there seems to be a depressingly large number of businesspeople who took all the wrong lessons from Oliver Stone's Wall Street.

There needs to be a counter "Wall Street". One with a "Gordon Gecko" character who's uncool through & through and who fails miserably along with an "anti-Gecko" who's pure cool & is able to shrewdly surf the waves of the business world without being a psychopath.

I think the saying "Power Corrupts" is a poisonous saying that does more harm than good. It prevents good ethical people from seeking positions of wealth, power & influence.....things one needs in this day to make stuff happen. We need the enlightened on both "Powerful" & "Little Guy" fronts. However, people don't seek power, wealth & influence because they feel they will suddenly turn into pure evil. Frankly, for someone to be corrupted, they need to have had those tendencies deep within to begin with.

No, the saying SHOULD be "Power corrupts...but only if you let it".

And if the system won't change, start your own! I can't see why people can't start their own comic book/movie studio/music production company/etc. You'll be amazed what a bit of finesse, creativity, some software, the internet, fundraising, etc. can do.

Where there's a will, there's a way & traditional channel's aren't the only way to go.

The Digital/Cyber path is the future!

Most regressive are old & will die out soon.

Each generation is generally more progressive than the last.

This latest explosion of reactionaries will eventually die out....in fact it's a sign that progressivism is WORKING! It's like a medicated zit that explodes before it disappears. The backwards gunk is coming to a head so it can be wiped out.


Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Awesome Protest Signs
« Reply #2249 on: July 31, 2014, 08:27:07 pm »
True. That said, I still believe in hope & humanity's better half.

But I agree with a "Devil's Advocate" for authority figures.

As for wee peons like ourselves, we need all the more we can get.

Also, I doubt the water protests will get the automotive companies back but it might start something.

I'm not sure but I'm hopeful.

Well, we'll vote the wingnuts out of office this Fall then PRESSURE them to to bring back manufacturing to America. They don't need to neglect India, China, etc. In fact, having more manufacturing in both the U.S. & those other countries would mean MORE money, wouldn't it? Why should it be "either or"?

There should be HUGE taxes for outsourcing. Or an amendment or act that states that if a company expands to other countries, they are not to close down the home branch! There must be some manufacturing here! If the CEOs are too el cheapo to pay the extra money for regulations & decent pay then they should be FORCED TOO!

We need an amendment to keep plants open here! I can't see why they can't just be open here & in other countries. More plants mean more money made!
Unfortunately, all too many in the current business class seem to be too focused on the short-term.  That, and the fact that they only care about lining their pockets.  Say what you will about the 19th Century robber barons, but at least they were genuinely invested in their businesses.  These guys, however, seem only concerned with enriching themselves as much as possible, and if their businesses collapse, they can just lazily drift to the ground on their golden parachutes.

Of course, not all businesspeople are like this.  Look at Warren Buffet, or W. Craig Jelinek.  But there seems to be a depressingly large number of businesspeople who took all the wrong lessons from Oliver Stone's Wall Street.

There needs to be a counter "Wall Street". One with a "Gordon Gecko" character who's uncool through & through and who fails miserably along with an "anti-Gecko" who's pure cool & is able to shrewdly surf the waves of the business world without being a psychopath.

I think the saying "Power Corrupts" is a poisonous saying that does more harm than good. It prevents good ethical people from seeking positions of wealth, power & influence.....things one needs in this day to make stuff happen. We need the enlightened on both "Powerful" & "Little Guy" fronts. However, people don't seek power, wealth & influence because they feel they will suddenly turn into pure evil. Frankly, for someone to be corrupted, they need to have had those tendencies deep within to begin with.

No, the saying SHOULD be "Power corrupts...but only if you let it".

And if the system won't change, start your own! I can't see why people can't start their own comic book/movie studio/music production company/etc. You'll be amazed what a bit of finesse, creativity, some software, the internet, fundraising, etc. can do.

Where there's a will, there's a way & traditional channel's aren't the only way to go.

The Digital/Cyber path is the future!

Most regressive are old & will die out soon.

Each generation is generally more progressive than the last.

This latest explosion of reactionaries will eventually die out....in fact it's a sign that progressivism is WORKING! It's like a medicated zit that explodes before it disappears. The backwards gunk is coming to a head so it can be wiped out.
I'm starting to think this explosion of regressivism is like a snake in its death throes.