Worst Political Cartoons

[Witchyjoshy]

According to Google, the definition of a pagan is "someone who doesn't follow one of the mainstream religions."  And that heathen is synonymous.  (I know quite a few heathens and pagans that would disagree but that's apparently the official definition)

At Kratos' time, his religion would have been a mainstream religion

Well, up until he killed all the gods, anyways.

And apparently paved the way for Christianity while doing so...

(Don't look at me, that's what other people are thinking)

[Ultimate Paragon]

I can understand why you would think that.  And you'd probably be right if we were talking about, say, Mussolini or Than Shwe.  However, there's one problem with that theory.  These people were communists, and communism is, by nature, opposed to religion.  Marx himself called religion "the opiate of the masses".

And even if the persecution of religion was just a cynical ploy to hold on to their power, that doesn't change the fact that millions bought into it.  If it turned out that Osama bin Laden had been a hypocrite the whole time, it wouldn't have made his followers any less fanatical.

Am I saying Atheism is inherently evil?  Of course not.  What I'm saying is that Atheism cannot claim any inherent moral superiority, any more than Christianity or Islam.

[mellenORL]

If the cartoon had depicted an Islamic dictator, and not an individual fanatic terrorist, a Christian dictator, and not an individual fanatic terrorist, you could then correctly cite an atheist dictator in your argument, UP.

However, that is not what the cartoon depicted. It showed three individuals of three different belief/nonbelief sets, not three government dictators. The only possible example I can think of for atheist terrorists would maybe be an "anarchist" bomber of the early twentieth. However, I don't know if there is any reliable info as to whether all of those "anarchists" Were actually anarchists (it was a buzzword label for any terrorist back then), and certainly don't know if any of them identified as atheists...

[Cataclysm]

Am I saying Atheism is inherently evil?  Of course not.  What I'm saying is that Atheism cannot claim any inherent moral superiority, any more than Christianity or Islam.

Do most atheists claim that they're morally superior to theists?

[Ultimate Paragon]

Am I saying Atheism is inherently evil?  Of course not.  What I'm saying is that Atheism cannot claim any inherent moral superiority, any more than Christianity or Islam.

Do most atheists claim that they're morally superior to theists?

Most don't.  I was just speaking of the vocal minority.

[Dakota Bob]

Am I saying Atheism is inherently evil?  Of course not.  What I'm saying is that Atheism cannot claim any inherent moral superiority, any more than Christianity or Islam.

You're right, in that atheism cannot claim any moral superiority because it is simply the lack of belief in god, so there isn't a set of morals attached to atheism by default. But a ton of atheists, agnostics, humanists certainly CAN claim moral superiority to a group that believes that if you cross their vengeful god you will be sent to hell to be tortured forever.

[Id82]

Do you know what he meant by "opiates of the masses?"
Here's the actual quote.

"Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions."
Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right

A criticism of religion? Yeah, but what he was basically saying is that due to economic woes the masses being the down trodden, the poor and the unwealthy, turn to religion for solace. He's not necessarily saying down with religion, but saying that it shouldn't be a crutch for people to lean on during tough times. Marx, of course wanted everyone to be equal, if everyone wasn't suffering they wouldn't rely on just their religion to get out of it and maybe actually, do something.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Am I saying Atheism is inherently evil?  Of course not.  What I'm saying is that Atheism cannot claim any inherent moral superiority, any more than Christianity or Islam.

You're right, in that atheism cannot claim any moral superiority because it is simply the lack of belief in god, so there isn't a set of morals attached to atheism by default. But a ton of atheists, agnostics, humanists certainly CAN claim moral superiority to a group that believes that if you cross their vengeful god you will be sent to hell to be tortured forever.

That's certainly true.  On the other hand, there are a number of religious people who can claim moral superiority over atheists.  Giuseppe Garibaldi can certainly claim moral superiority over Tomas de Torquemada, but on the other hand, Pope Francis can claim moral superiority over Leon Trotsky.

Do you know what he meant by "opiates of the masses?"
Here's the actual quote.

"Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions."
Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right

A criticism of religion? Yeah, but what he was basically saying is that due to economic woes the masses being the down trodden, the poor and the unwealthy, turn to religion for solace. He's not necessarily saying down with religion, but saying that it shouldn't be a crutch for people to lean on during tough times. Marx, of course wanted everyone to be equal, if everyone wasn't suffering they wouldn't rely on just their religion to get out of it and maybe actually, do something.

I didn't know the context.  You learn something new every day.  However, that doesn't change the fact that communism has frequently been opposed to religion.  Look at the Soviet repression of the Russian Orthodox Church, or Hoxa expelling religious leaders, or Pol Pot sending the religious to die in the killing fields.

By the way, there have been a number of atheist terrorist groups.  Most of them were anarchist or communist, and they mostly existed in the Americas and Eurasia.  While it's true that promoting atheism was not their primary agenda, they did commonly target religion.

[Sigmaleph]

I can understand why you would think that.  And you'd probably be right if we were talking about, say, Mussolini or Than Shwe.  However, there's one problem with that theory.  These people were communists, and communism is, by nature, opposed to religion.  Marx himself called religion "the opiate of the masses".

...and? They still weren't doing it for atheism. The point of the cartoon is that atheism by itself doesn't inspire people to murder; pointing out how communism can inspire people to murder is missing the point.

Also, religious communists exist, and opposition to religion is not exactly synonymous with atheism, but that's just nitpicking.

[Ultimate Paragon]

...I don't know if that's an example of "No True Scotsman", but it's damn close.  You're missing my point.  While they were partially motivated by power, it would be dishonest to say that was the sole motivator.  If it was, I think they'd have been more likely to pack those institutions with their supporters, rather than try to dismantle them altogether.

[Sigmaleph]

You're missing my point.  While they were partially motivated by power, it would be dishonest to say that was the sole motivator.  If it was, I think they'd have been more likely to pack those institutions with their supporters, rather than try to dismantle them altogether.

Do you claim that they were motivated by atheism or nonreligiousness?

[Ultimate Paragon]

In part, yes, in the same way that Ivan the Terrible was partly motivated by Christianity (more specifically, Russian Orthodoxy), or Talaat Pasha was partly motivated by Sunni Islam.

By the way, I found an example of somebody who indisputably hated religion.  His name was Tomás Garrido Canabal, and he was a prominent figure in the Mexican Revolution.  Look him up.

[kefkaownsall]

Also stop praising Pope Francis he's not a good person.  Ask Sigma

[Ultimate Paragon]

Also stop praising Pope Francis he's not a good person.  Ask Sigma

What makes you say that?

[davedan]

...Incidentally, I'm wondering what a militant pagan would look like.

The emperor Julian was a militant Pagan