It's not really too far off and is all a matter of the fluidity and relativity of speech. There was a thread here not to long ago where someone said that "no body is a monstrous person" while on here alone Savage has been accused of being monstrous.
You can't claim hypocrisy unless it's the same person making the contradictory statements. Just because Shane said that he was a monstrous person does not mean that that sentiment defines the whole group of people who also disapprove of Dan Savage.
Also, its a great way to have you're point taken seriously when people just throw out accusations which could not be any more baseless (ablist, sizist; as though Savage seriously said at one point in his recent life "Fuck that midget in a wheelchair").
Oh, hey,
ableism and
sizism (sizism being against people who are overweight, not based on height, Jesus Christ). Also, being oppressive is not as obvious as you make it sound. A racist person doesn't have to say "fuck black people" to be a racist.
That is what draws my ire to this thread and the main reason why I couldn't let this point go as I have let so many other Savage threads go without voicing my opinion. It just seems to me that those who try to portray Savage as this horrible person only do this so that they may appear "holier than thou."
No, people accurately point out that he has said some really douchy things. Being a good person does not give you a get-out-of-being-criticized-free card.
I don't see the point of misinterpreting what he says intentionally (such as his "bi-phobic statements", or his IGB project being describe as a "grow old, adopt a kid, and move to France") or drawing things from ages ago that he has already admitted was wrong and has since changed his stance on (transphobic statements).
He has said biphobic things. This is not baseless, that is fact. Saying that he doesn't believe young people when they say they are bisexual (because he thinks that they're hiding their actual gayness) is biphobic, and no matter how you slice it, it always will be a biphobic statement.
IGB is awesome, sure, but it's not an effective solution for bullying. Saying "just wait out your bullies and everything will be fine later" is a
lie. It is ignoring the actual issue, namely that people are fucking assholes and need to be taught how not to be assholes. Saying "it gets better" only works in the short term, and ignores the fact that for a good chunk of people, it will
never get better until someone comes along and gets rid of the bullies.
Also, your link does not show him having changed a stance, it shows him defending a stance.
I feel calling him a bigot only plays into the conservative argument that the left uses words like "bigot" and "racist" as a form of censorship.
If you parody people's attempts to educate you on actual issues (see the ableism link above), then you are not learning anything. You are, in fact, being deliberately offensive and ignorant. That is what a bigot is: someone who defies all attempts of education in order to cling to their own views.
I mean, if anything, I don't think he's bigoted, maybe a tad ignorant at times (which can be hard when he is a de facto ambassador to the straight community and tries to put a comedic spin on things). However, there is a difference between bigotry and ignorance in that one doesn't know better and is open to learning when they say something that is offensive and changing. Calling him a bigot (if he were one) would only harden his stance, which again, he seems to have rescinded.
See. Above. Also, humor is never an excuse to be an asshole, because it normalizes assholery.
Finally, I don't see Dan as the biggest enemy and I think this circular firing squad that has risen among the LGBT community regarding Dan Savage is silly at best and counterproductive at worst (which if someone wants to be technical and holier than me, my use of "LGBT" could be bigoted towards other identities/orientations).
Just because he isn't the worst enemy doesn't mean he isn't an asshole. Just because he isn't calling for the deaths of queer people doesn't make him not an asshole. Sure, in the grand scheme of things, he's not that bad, but that doesn't stop him from being an asshole. You don't get a cookie for not being an actively hateful person: not being an asshole should be the default, not something that you need to be rewarded for.
Also, yes, using "LGBT" erases people who are pan, asexual, queer, or anything else that isn't in those letters. It's accepted shorthand because using something long like QUILTBAG or LGBTQQPAA or whatever is hard for people because people are ignorant of other identities.
He's not the biggest threat to the Lesbian, bi, trans, et al. communities. The IGB Project has included those groups in it and never have I seen a video where it is implied any of these groups are less important than gay males.
You can't judge a guy by single videos. Most of the IGB project videos are sent in by individuals, right? That means that he has no control over what's in the videos. Also, just because a person says racist, sexist, whatever things does not mean that they are hateful bigots in every aspect of what they do.
At the very least, he's moving the proverbial "overton window" towards acceptance of Lesbians, Bi people, and transpeople even if at the end of the day he's solely in it for Gay acceptance. In doing so is a far greater ally to the other groups than most people on this forum. That's not including the numerous fundraisers and awareness campaigns he has sponsored where sometimes the only beneficiary is a trans or lesbian group or person.
Wow, that's a personal attack.
Being an ally means supporting the people you are allied with. It means not making fun of them when other people are. It means not encouraging stereotypes. It means not using slurs. That's what being an ally is, and that is
not what Dan Savage is doing.
I would think focusing our attention on the Mormon Church, evangelicals, or other anti-LGBT groups/people would be more productive than foaming at the mouth towards Dan.
We do focus our efforts on them, but that can be hard when you're being eroded from behind.
Second:
A group of people agreeing with each other is not a hive mentality.
I never said simple agreement constituted a hive mentality. I said that when it comes to the guy the collective hatred towards him overrides any attempt to see anything different. Essentially, the collective hatred of Savage takes precedence over any apologies he's made or any attempts to point out how a quote of his may have been taken out of context. This constitutes the hive mentality, not people simply agreeing over something.
Show me where he has apologized for using ableist language, or biphobic language, or sizeist language, and done it
not in a joking manner that undermines his apology. Because using a joking manner implies that you aren't actually serious about the apology, which means that you have learned nothing. Show me where his problematic statements have been taken out of context. I'll break free of the "hive mind" when you prove to me that I'm actually in one.
EDIT: Maybe for clarity or just to add (I don't really know why, but to be honest I guess), but my feelings regarding Savage is that he has been beneficial to the LGBT community as a whole and that because of this his apologies regarding any backhanded statements should be taken at face value. I may also be bias myself as it was more or less watching Rise Against's "Make it Stop" video which lead to me coming out. After watching it on youtube a few times (and crying) I decided to watch some IGB vids and eventually started watching some transition vids, one in which I found the quote in my sig and more or less made me realize how stupid I was being in living a lie. Again, don't really know why I'm adding this, but a side of me feels if not for the IGB project, I wouldn't have come out so soon (if at all) and I see him as being a very beneficial person to the entire LGBT community. So, maybe I'm a tad biased here, but (and staying as objective as possible when I evaluate such claims) I do feel that some members of the LGBT community unfairly gang up on Savage because he is kind of a de facto face of the group.
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That is just your experience, and that is fantastic. Unfortunately, a lot of people have not had that experience.
I used to adore Dan Savage. I still like him for the Santorum thing, and the fact that he's gay and funny, and reading his blog, I honestly think, put me in the right mindset to become sex-positive later on. That is awesome. But just because one person is awesome doesn't mean they can't also do problematic things. Just because I think Obama is the best president I have ever encountered doesn't mean I have to then ignore things like NDAA. It just means that I have to like him
in spite of things like NDAA. That doesn't mean I don't like him anymore, but it means I have to concede some things as just being right even if I don't like them, without sticking my fingers in my ears and saying "baseless accusations!" over and over again.
