FSTDT Forums
Community => Society and History => Topic started by: Askold on October 22, 2015, 07:55:31 am
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1 dead, 5 injured including the attacker who was armed with a sword.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34602621
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/22/pupils-wounded-in-sword-attack-at-swedish-school
“When we first saw him we thought it was a joke. He had a mask and black clothes and a long sword. There were students who wanted to go with him and hold the sword,” a student told Swedish media.
Some witnesses said the attacker was wearing a Star Wars mask. Others took it to be a Halloween prank.
A statement from the hospital said: “We have four seriously injured patients. All are in surgery right now. One is a teacher and two are students. One is 11 and one 15 years old. They have knife wounds. One of the injured is the suspected culprit. He is being operated on for gunshot wounds. A teacher died at the scene.”
No word on the motive yet, but we may still uncover if the attacker survives his injuries.
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Think it might have been another Breivik?
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Too soon to guess. At this point I am willing to consider that theory but it might have been some bullied teenager with no agenda beyond"I will be famous" or anything really. Let's wait until the police reveal what they know.
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This is a bit reminiscent of all those lone madman knife attacks in China over recent years, and combines elements of Aurora Theatre (the culprit's "costume"). I hope Sweden's media will keep his name out of the reporting. Describe everything about what a loser or how sick he is, but no fame given as to his name.
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Wow.
Ironbite-hope no more die.
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with a sword?!? what is this? the viking era? i'd understand it coming from norway, but sweden? guess it's not all neo-nazis, healthcare and death metal... that's really horrible, i'm saddened and disappointed in equal amounts.
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Damn. I guess without guns, the mass-murdering types have to get creative. (OTOH, at least the "mass" isn't in this murder. Small comfort, I know.)
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I've found that an asshole who wants to commit mass murder will find a way to do it but at least this asshole doesn't get to wear that distinction and will remain, forever, just an asshole. But as was said before, I just hope they never mention this asshole's name. I don't want to know it. Ever.
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This is a bit reminiscent of all those lone madman knife attacks in China over recent years, and combines elements of Aurora Theatre (the culprit's "costume"). I hope Sweden's media will keep his name out of the reporting. Describe everything about what a loser or how sick he is, but no fame given as to his name.
I hope so, too. I'll bet that mass attacks with swords, guns or whatever would be greatly reduced if the perp is a complete unknown.
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This is a bit reminiscent of all those lone madman knife attacks in China over recent years, and combines elements of Aurora Theatre (the culprit's "costume"). I hope Sweden's media will keep his name out of the reporting. Describe everything about what a loser or how sick he is, but no fame given as to his name.
I hope so, too. I'll bet that mass attacks with swords, guns or whatever would be greatly reduced if the perp is a complete unknown.
i dunno, for some people it could be a personal vendetta, fame could not even factor into the equation. (i've been on a criminal minds binge) infamy could be a motivator, but unless your a total psychopath (and derivatives of antisocial personnality disorder) you won't think the best way to be famous is by going on a killing spree. there's other causes that need to be factored in, like bullying, prejudice, mental illness, among other causes.
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I can't link now but the police say the attack was motivated by racism and the killer (who is dead now) targeted specific people and let others escape. There is still a chance that they are wrong and he was after bullies and not just immigrants or something but we will have to wait until the police reveal more info.
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Damn. I guess without guns, the mass-murdering types have to get creative.
It seems like it's extremely difficult to do a mass murder without guns.
Gun fondlers over in 'murica should take notes, even though I know they won't.
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I took note, Ironchew. I just don't have much to add, so I kept out of the discussion.
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It seems like one guy with a sword got as high bodycount as the average mass shooter in USA.
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Two dead, four hurt is as high a body count as your average shooter? You sure about that, Askold?
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That's true. Most of them don't make the headlines. There was a university shooting in Tennessee yesterday or day before with a small-ish count on hurt and dead, and it's basically hovering under the media radar.
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Two dead, four hurt is as high a body count as your average shooter? You sure about that, Askold?
Seems like he got more than the average mass shooter in USA this year:
http://shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2015
The ones that get famous are the ones with bigger death count but on average there seem to be 0 deaths and few injuries.
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Remembers, kids; according to the media, blood is sexy.
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Two dead, four hurt is as high a body count as your average shooter? You sure about that, Askold?
Seems like he got more than the average mass shooter in USA this year:
http://shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2015
The ones that get famous are the ones with bigger death count but on average there seem to be 0 deaths and few injuries.
Fair enough. I concede the point.
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This thread has made me resolve that if I ever do commit a mass murder, I will do it with a halberd. That oughta get me famous for sure.
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I suggest you use a spork. If only for a refuge in audacity.
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This thread has made me resolve that if I ever do commit a mass murder, I will do it with a halberd. That oughta get me famous for sure.
Glaive-guisarme. Or a glaive-guisarme-glaive.
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Don't say dildo... Don't say dildo... Don't say dildo... Don't say dildo... Don't say dildo... Don't say dildo... Don't say dildo... Thinkofsomethingelse... Maybe a rubber chicken? That should be funny!
Well if you really want to turn some heads you gotta go on a killing spree with a dildo.
Dammit!
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I suggest you use a spork. If only for a refuge in audacity.
i've always dreamed of going on a rampage using glitter-filled balloons and a rubber chicken. the only thing that stopped me would be that it would send me right back to the loony bin.
but seriously, just imagine the headlines! ;D
edit: dammit, askold thought of it too!
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Two dead, four hurt is as high a body count as your average shooter? You sure about that, Askold?
Seems like he got more than the average mass shooter in USA this year:
http://shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2015
The ones that get famous are the ones with bigger death count but on average there seem to be 0 deaths and few injuries.
Doing the math (by which I mean copypasting into statistics sofware):
Deaths: average 1.25, median 1. Wounds: average 3.7, median 4.
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I should have said that the average was 1, rather than 0 since that is what it looked like before I derped as I wrote the post, but Sigma did do a proper count.
Still, he did get over the average in kills with just a sword and while only attacking certain people rather than stabbing everyone he could.
Swords are scary weapons indoors and simply blaming firearms for being dangerous is missing the point.
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I hope this Swedish thing is a wake-up call to Sweden that Far-Right thinking (the killer was a Fascist-wannabe bigot who targeted immigrants) is stupid. I know that country has been playing with those ideas, lately.
Why is there not a huge movement to counter those messages?! Surely Sweden's government isn't as corrupt and censor-happy....Surely there can be a bunch of TV shows, songs, kid's programming, etc. counteracting all that anti-immigrant, bigoted Far-Right rhetoric and telling the people that there's nothing to fear, immigrants enrich society and that not all Muslims are terrorists.
I don't understand. You have a country that's so Progressive and thrives due to that Progressivism! Why would anyone want any different?! Don't people understand that if they embrace Far-Right thinking their country can go down the sewer? The economy, quality of life, etc. will suffer! The Social Safety net and good jobs with benefits will suffer! These people should know better!
Someone should lace the water supply everywhere with minerals that can reduce an overactive amygdala. Too many people thinking with their amygdalas! Fear fear fear! People keep falling for the authoritarian's oldest tricks in the book! TURN OFF THE DAMNED TV A RADIO AND THINK RATIONALLY FOR A WHILE!
And we need to teach kids everywhere that bigotry is bad news!
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I hope this Swedish thing is a wake-up call to Sweden that Far-Right thinking (the killer was a Fascist-wannabe bigot who targeted immigrants) is stupid. I know that country has been playing with those ideas, lately.
Why is there not a huge movement to counter those messages?! Surely Sweden's government isn't as corrupt and censor-happy....Surely there can be a bunch of TV shows, songs, kid's programming, etc. counteracting all that anti-immigrant, bigoted Far-Right rhetoric and telling the people that there's nothing to fear, immigrants enrich society and that not all Muslims are terrorists.
I don't understand. You have a country that's so Progressive and thrives due to that Progressivism! Why would anyone want any different?! Don't people understand that if they embrace Far-Right thinking their country can go down the sewer? The economy, quality of life, etc. will suffer! The Social Safety net and good jobs with benefits will suffer! These people should know better!
That's exactly the problem. Sweden's too progressive. It's the rape capital of the West, and has the second highest rates of rape in the world. Granted, there might be some statistical irregularities involved, as well as quirks of the Swedish legal system, so it's possible that these numbers are inflated. Nevertheless, the number of rapes in Sweden has skyrocketed since 2005.
But it's not really the numbers that are making people upset. It's who's perpetrating the crimes, and the government's response. There aren't comprehensive statistics about the ethnic or national background of these rapists, but if they're anything like neighboring Denmark, the majority are from the Islamic World, or second-generation immigrants. More important, these heinous criminals, if they get convicted at all, are usually given very light sentences. You can call me a hardliner all you like, but I don't think community service is an adequate punishment for raping a 12-year-old girl! And to think some people call Sweden "feminist"...
Honestly, Swedes have every right to be upset about this. The fact that these people are able to leave for a foreign country, commit sex crimes there, and get off basically scot-free is utterly heinous. I'm all for taking in the huddled masses, but felons ought to be sent back to their country of origin. Hospitality works both ways. If I let a hobo stay in my house and he tries to molest my kids, I'm completely within my rights to kick him out, if not call the cops on him.
Now, the problem is not with the immigrants themselves. There are bad apples in every barrel. Most Muslim immigrants are law-abiding citizens. However, this so-called "reverse discrimination," as well as refusal to deport felonious immigrants, has unfortunately caused massive resentment against Sweden's Muslim population. When immigrants are able to get a slap on the wrist for such heinous crimes, is it any wonder the Swedish far right is growing?
Before you say anything, I have sources. I'm completely willing to show them upon request.
Someone should lace the water supply everywhere with minerals that can reduce an overactive amygdala. Too many people thinking with their amygdalas! Fear fear fear! People keep falling for the authoritarian's oldest tricks in the book! TURN OFF THE DAMNED TV A RADIO AND THINK RATIONALLY FOR A WHILE!
I'm not a chemist, but I think that might be dangerous.
And we need to teach kids everywhere that bigotry is bad news!
Agreed.
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Askold, could you explain this to Paragon! You should have a better understanding than me.
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Someone should lace the water supply everywhere with minerals that can reduce an overactive amygdala. Too many people thinking with their amygdalas! Fear fear fear! People keep falling for the authoritarian's oldest tricks in the book! TURN OFF THE DAMNED TV A RADIO AND THINK RATIONALLY FOR A WHILE!
The person who thinks drugging people into the correct political view is in any way a good idea has no business telling others to think rationally. Really now, this is almost as dumb as your magic murder spells idea.
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I'm pretty sure native Swedish rapists get light sentences too so it's not really a "reverse discrimination" thing
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The Swedish law also defines rape more broadly and many cases would be defined as sexual assault elsewhere. The Swedish public also has a high trust in the police and there is relatively little social stigma for rape victims which means there are less incentives for the victims not to report the crimes. Since rape is one of the crimes that often go unreported this is probably a factor in the rape statistics.
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I'm pretty sure native Swedish rapists get light sentences too so it's not really a "reverse discrimination" thing
That's probably true, but since when have wingnuts let the facts get in the way of the narrative? And it certainly doesn't help that a statutory rape case was thrown out of court because the victim "looked well-developed."
The Swedish law also defines rape more broadly and many cases would be defined as sexual assault elsewhere. The Swedish public also has a high trust in the police and there is relatively little social stigma for rape victims which means there are less incentives for the victims not to report the crimes. Since rape is one of the crimes that often go unreported this is probably a factor in the rape statistics.
Like I said, the truth about Swedish rape cases has been distorted. What's important is how the cases are treated. I'm all for multiculturalism, but rapists and other felons don't enrich culture. My problem's not really with the immigrants themselves, I have every reason to believe most of them are decent, law-abiding citizens. My problem is with the Swedish government's response to when immigrants commit crimes.
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I'm pretty sure native Swedish rapists get light sentences too so it's not really a "reverse discrimination" thing
That's probably true, but since when have wingnuts let the facts get in the way of the narrative? And it certainly doesn't help that a statutory rape case was thrown out of court because the victim "looked well-developed."
The Swedish law also defines rape more broadly and many cases would be defined as sexual assault elsewhere. The Swedish public also has a high trust in the police and there is relatively little social stigma for rape victims which means there are less incentives for the victims not to report the crimes. Since rape is one of the crimes that often go unreported this is probably a factor in the rape statistics.
Like I said, the truth about Swedish rape cases has been distorted. What's important is how the cases are treated. I'm all for multiculturalism, but rapists and other felons don't enrich culture. My problem's not really with the immigrants themselves, I have every reason to believe most of them are decent, law-abiding citizens. My problem is with the Swedish government's response to when immigrants commit crimes.
What the others are trying to say is that Sweden has more rapes REPORTED. If more survivors of rape REPORT their assault, it's a good thing because it means that people are more open and willing to talk about it and survivors aren't shamed.
If this country didn't have a huge stigma on rape, the reports would be through the roof! India would be hundreds of times worse!
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And it certainly doesn't help that a statutory rape case was thrown out of court because the victim "looked well-developed."
If the victim misrepresented themselves and it was believable that doesn't really seem like a miscarriage of justice.
Got any details on what the story is? I curious to know if it's a tempest in a teapot or a legitimate issue.
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And it certainly doesn't help that a statutory rape case was thrown out of court because the victim "looked well-developed."
If the victim misrepresented themselves and it was believable that doesn't really seem like a miscarriage of justice.
Got any details on what the story is? I curious to know if it's a tempest in a teapot or a legitimate issue.
It looks like UP is talking about the case depicted below:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/man-27-acquitted-of-raping-13-year-old-girl-in-sweden-because-she-looked-well-developed-10111432.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/man-27-acquitted-of-raping-13-year-old-girl-in-sweden-because-she-looked-well-developed-10111432.html)
Which, while it's certainly unsavory, one could make the argument that he thought she looked 15, and she never disproved that, and so he didn't know he was committing a crime.
Though my position is "a 27-year-old man shouldn't be having sex with anyone below 20 anyway, that's just sick and wrong".