Author Topic: Pro-Life Versus "Pro-Life"  (Read 4942 times)

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Offline Alehksunos

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Re: Pro-Life Versus "Pro-Life"
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2012, 01:41:39 pm »
He also seems to think women on birth control are sluts (not sure if this includes his wife and daughter, even though both of us are on the Pill).

Is your dad Rush Limbaugh?

Offline Material Defender

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Re: Pro-Life Versus "Pro-Life"
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2012, 03:07:04 pm »
If we just focus on Abortion, I was taught this pertaining to certain circumstances.

Mother's Life: It is forgivable to kill the child if the mother is at risk. Completely acceptable. Since if the mother dies due to the pregnancy, the child is lost anyways.

Rape: Is a difficult time for the mother. Emotionally its understandable to abort and while its preferred to keep the child, since the sins of the father should not reflect upon the child, it is emotionally rough. Can be accepted. Also applies to children and you know.

Societal/Financial: It is impossible for the mother to carry the child to term due to the loss of income or the social shunning. This can be accepted because the pain caused is too great. As long as forgiveness is sought. Also why it is important not to shun or hurt anyone who is pregnant, but instead accept them.

If pro-life isn't going to be anti-women, it has to look out for pregnant mothers, adopted children, make exceptions for reasonable reasons, provide maternity leave, and not be cognitively dissonant.

Reminds me of a discussion in my 8th grade class (Pro-Life Democrat teacher who applied the philosophy I listed at the OP.) when the man killed the abortion doctor. Back in the day. Some people thought it was 'just' because he had killed people but could not give a good reason WHY when pressed by my teacher. Who was trying to impress upon us "What makes it right for us to judge death upon anyone? Him killing that doctor doesn't save any lives and removes the chance the doctor can repent." I know I basically thought "What makes that man less sacred than the babies he killed? Killing one person doesn't bring back another."

I feel like we need a new term for these "Pro-Life" people because holy shit, they are not pro-life.
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Re: Pro-Life Versus "Pro-Life"
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2012, 04:11:18 pm »
Anti-women works.
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Offline Material Defender

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Re: Pro-Life Versus "Pro-Life"
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2012, 04:35:15 pm »
They seem pro-death to me. :/
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Offline Caitshidhe

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Re: Pro-Life Versus "Pro-Life"
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2012, 06:58:33 pm »
Usually when questioned on the inherent contradiction of being anti-choice but pro-death-penalty, the anti-choicers will rattle off some token crap about how a fetus is an innocent part who did nothing to 'earn' the 'punishment' of being aborted whereas the person being executed is (presumably) guilty of some enormous crime like murder. Even I won't argue that that makes sense, but you can't compare a fetus--which has no feelings, no consciousness, no friends and loved ones, and no personhood of any kind--to a fully formed human being who not only has all of those features but also has the potential to have been wrongfully convicted.
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Offline Meshakhad

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Re: Pro-Life Versus "Pro-Life"
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2012, 10:28:42 pm »
Usually when questioned on the inherent contradiction of being anti-choice but pro-death-penalty, the anti-choicers will rattle off some token crap about how a fetus is an innocent part who did nothing to 'earn' the 'punishment' of being aborted whereas the person being executed is (presumably) guilty of some enormous crime like murder. Even I won't argue that that makes sense, but you can't compare a fetus--which has no feelings, no consciousness, no friends and loved ones, and no personhood of any kind--to a fully formed human being who not only has all of those features but also has the potential to have been wrongfully convicted.

This is slightly amusing to me, because under Jewish law, in the case of the mother's health being at risk, the fetus is not considered to be an innocent. Did it mean to threaten its mother's life? No. Is it doing so? Yes.
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Offline TheUnknown

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Re: Pro-Life Versus "Pro-Life"
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2012, 02:12:56 am »
Usually when questioned on the inherent contradiction of being anti-choice but pro-death-penalty, the anti-choicers will rattle off some token crap about how a fetus is an innocent part who did nothing to 'earn' the 'punishment' of being aborted whereas the person being executed is (presumably) guilty of some enormous crime like murder. Even I won't argue that that makes sense, but you can't compare a fetus--which has no feelings, no consciousness, no friends and loved ones, and no personhood of any kind--to a fully formed human being who not only has all of those features but also has the potential to have been wrongfully convicted.

This is slightly amusing to me, because under Jewish law, in the case of the mother's health being at risk, the fetus is not considered to be an innocent. Did it mean to threaten its mother's life? No. Is it doing so? Yes.

Yeah, the nutters who won't allow abortions for health reasons use the whole "ignorant of what it's doing" as an excuse as to why you shouldn't be allowed to save the mother.  Another one is saying that it's a woman's obligation to sacrifice everything for her child, and a women who chooses to save herself over her baby is a horrible mother and person.

I once saw a post on Christian Forums where someone said that they heard of someone who survived an ectopic pregnancy by transferring the fetus to the uterus, so that's why there's absolutely no excuse for a woman to abort because of something like that.

Offline Cataclysm

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Re: Pro-Life Versus "Pro-Life"
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2012, 03:02:43 pm »
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

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Offline Sylvana

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Re: Pro-Life Versus "Pro-Life"
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2012, 05:05:55 am »

I once saw a post on Christian Forums where someone said that they heard of someone who survived an ectopic pregnancy by transferring the fetus to the uterus, so that's why there's absolutely no excuse for a woman to abort because of something like that.

My medical knowledge concerning pregnancy and such is sketchy at best, but I am pretty sure that any kind of operation to move the fetus would break the placental barrier and expose the fetus to the immune system of the parent and subsequently kill it? I know Pro-lifers and such continue to harp on about how the fetus is a beautiful life and human in every way and that it is a mothers instinct and role to give birth to it and raise it. However, without that barrier the woman's body will kill that fetus without a second to waste. As far as the woman's body is concerned that fetus is a parasitic intruder and must be killed.

I may be mistaken though.

They seem pro-death to me. :/

Pro-birth.

I think the most accurate would be anti-choice. They want to remove the ability for the woman to choose, they do not wish for death (despite their cognitive dissonance regarding entropic pregnancies and such) nor is it purely about forcing women to give birth as they would allow the mother to die if she cannot give birth because of complications. It is all about removing the options available and the ability to choose amongst them.

Offline TheL

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Re: Pro-Life Versus "Pro-Life"
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2012, 08:46:52 am »

I once saw a post on Christian Forums where someone said that they heard of someone who survived an ectopic pregnancy by transferring the fetus to the uterus, so that's why there's absolutely no excuse for a woman to abort because of something like that.

My medical knowledge concerning pregnancy and such is sketchy at best, but I am pretty sure that any kind of operation to move the fetus would break the placental barrier and expose the fetus to the immune system of the parent and subsequently kill it? I know Pro-lifers and such continue to harp on about how the fetus is a beautiful life and human in every way and that it is a mothers instinct and role to give birth to it and raise it. However, without that barrier the woman's body will kill that fetus without a second to waste. As far as the woman's body is concerned that fetus is a parasitic intruder and must be killed.

I may be mistaken though.

No, that's absolutely right.  It's also why an Rh-positive mother and an Rh-negative fetus are such a bad combination.
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Re: Pro-Life Versus "Pro-Life"
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2012, 10:15:44 am »
No, that's absolutely right.  It's also why an Rh-positive mother and an Rh-negative fetus are such a bad combination.

Or the opposite, which is why I'm an only child.