FSTDT Forums
Community => Politics and Government => Topic started by: Her3tiK on April 10, 2012, 08:52:21 pm
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/10/showbiz/miss-universe-transgender/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29
The Miss Universe organization announced Tuesday it is ending its ban on transgender contestants after coming under scrutiny recently when a Canadian competitor was told she would be disqualified because she was born male.
Miss Universe officials insist the change is in spite of, not because of, legal threats from women's rights lawyer Gloria Allred made on behalf of contestant Jenna Talackova.
To be perfectly honest, I find the idea of surgically changing your gender to be really, really weird. Most of the people I've seen who've done this still look like they're part of their birth gender, making it seem like a rather ineffective procedure. With that said, I don't really care if people do it (why the hell should I?) and Jenna is one of the exceptions to the rule (picture in the link). If this controversy had never come up, I probably would not have known that she was once a guy. So, congrats to her for making it this far, sticking to her guns, and taking another step for LGBT rights and acceptance.
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To be perfectly honest, I find the idea of surgically changing your gender to be really, really weird. Most of the people I've seen who've done this still look like they're part of their birth gender, making it seem like a rather ineffective procedure. With that said, I don't really care if people do it (why the hell should I?) and Jenna is one of the exceptions to the rule (picture in the link). If this controversy had never come up, I probably would not have known that she was once a guy. So, congrats to her for making it this far, sticking to her guns, and taking another step for LGBT rights and acceptance.
If what I've read is right, she began hormone blockers at 14 before puberty really kicked in and made any significant changes to the face and skeletal structure. Right now she's reaping the rewards for coming out early. But I'll mention it again that she should be allowed to enter. The sole criteria in these competitions is physical, skin deep, beauty, and if she is more beautiful than her cis counterparts, she should win and everyone should accept this* as a consequence of judging women solely on our looks.
And if I may make one slight correction, she was never a guy. Society just assumed she was.
*And by accept this, I mean none of that "well I'm not gay......" insecure rhetoric. That gets old fast :-\
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I meant that Jenna was male from a purely biological standpoint. This isn't a subject I've touched much ever, so I apologize if I word things a bit odd. Thanks for any and all corrections you guys n' gals make.
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I meant that Jenna was male from a purely biological standpoint. This isn't a subject I've touched much ever, so I apologize if I word things a bit odd. Thanks for any and all corrections you guys n' gals make.
You're good. Sorry if you felt I worded it at you, I didn't mean to imply anything. But I know what meant and that you intended no offense :)
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OH LAWD THOSE COMMENTS. Just one positive comment. Just one. That's all I'm asking for. Please?
Regardless, good for her. She is better-looking than most cis-women and she deserves to be in the competition. (Though I would prefer her without all the makeup, but whatever)
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I meant that Jenna was male from a purely biological standpoint. This isn't a subject I've touched much ever, so I apologize if I word things a bit odd. Thanks for any and all corrections you guys n' gals make.
You're good. Sorry if you felt I worded it at you, I didn't mean to imply anything. But I know what meant and that you intended no offense :)
None taken. It's all good.
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If she's fully transitioned, there's no reason not to let her compete. Not to be rude, but it's not like her trans status gives her unfair advantage over the other girls. If anything, it's something she needed to overcome.
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Quite frankly, gender is more of a social construct and nowadays those barriers are being broken and people are starting to question what gender really is so I am glad that this woman is being allowed to compete in a beauty pageant and this is another huge step for transpeople.
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Good for the Miss Universe pageant!
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Thumbs up for this, man. If the person completed the trans surgery, why the hell not?
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To be perfectly honest, I find the idea of surgically changing your gender to be really, really weird. Most of the people I've seen who've done this still look like they're part of their birth gender, making it seem like a rather ineffective procedure. With that said, I don't really care if people do it (why the hell should I?) and Jenna is one of the exceptions to the rule (picture in the link). If this controversy had never come up, I probably would not have known that she was once a guy. So, congrats to her for making it this far, sticking to her guns, and taking another step for LGBT rights and acceptance.
If what I've read is right, she began hormone blockers at 14 before puberty really kicked in and made any significant changes to the face and skeletal structure. Right now she's reaping the rewards for coming out early. But I'll mention it again that she should be allowed to enter. The sole criteria in these competitions is physical, skin deep, beauty, and if she is more beautiful than her cis counterparts, she should win and everyone should accept this* as a consequence of judging women solely on our looks.
And if I may make one slight correction, she was never a guy. Society just assumed she was.
*And by accept this, I mean none of that "well I'm not gay......" insecure rhetoric. That gets old fast :-\
Amen!
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For the most part I am really happy about this. I mean she looks beautiful and deserves the right to compete.
That said I cant help but feel that the whole issue is loaded. If she wins I can see far too many people saying that she only won because of a pro-trans agenda, or she was given special consideration, etc. However if she looses, I can see equally loaded comments saying that she lost based on discrimination and such.
I know that this shouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately I can just see this becoming political. Unfortunately when things become political all who are involved are affected negatively. Even if she wins or looses on her own merit, I can see her being paraded around politically for other peoples agendas.
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Anyone objecting to trans-gender surgery being used to win a beauty pagent needs to look at all the other contestants and figure out just what about their looks they were born with! Fake faces, fake boobs, fake butts. So what's the big deal.
Also - just to prove I have a childish sense of humour - her name is pronounced like "Genital I covet" really? That's what I kept hearing.
Anyway - hooray for my fellow Canadian. Doing what you want to do. Good on you!
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Anyone objecting to trans-gender surgery being used to win a beauty pagent needs to look at all the other contestants and figure out just what about their looks they were born with! Fake faces, fake boobs, fake butts. So what's the big deal.
Also - just to prove I have a childish sense of humour - her name is pronounced like "Genital I covet" really? That's what I kept hearing.
Anyway - hooray for my fellow Canadian. Doing what you want to do. Good on you!
Actually, beauty pageants ban contestants who have had plastic surgery. A lot of the comments are actually people saying that because she's had surgery to alter her appearance, she has an unfair advantage.
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On the one hand, "Yay, advancement!" On the other, "Ugh. Beauty pageant...". Sigh. I'm happy for the breakthrough, regardless. I just don't particularly care for the medium.
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^ At least there's no children involved in this beauty pageant.
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/10/showbiz/miss-universe-transgender/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29
The Miss Universe organization announced Tuesday it is ending its ban on transgender contestants after coming under scrutiny recently when a Canadian competitor was told she would be disqualified because she was born male.
Miss Universe officials insist the change is in spite of, not because of, legal threats from women's rights lawyer Gloria Allred made on behalf of contestant Jenna Talackova.
To be perfectly honest, I find the idea of surgically changing your gender to be really, really weird. Most of the people I've seen who've done this still look like they're part of their birth gender, making it seem like a rather ineffective procedure. With that said, I don't really care if people do it (why the hell should I?) and Jenna is one of the exceptions to the rule (picture in the link). If this controversy had never come up, I probably would not have known that she was once a guy. So, congrats to her for making it this far, sticking to her guns, and taking another step for LGBT rights and acceptance.
maybe you think most trans pople look 'really really weird' because the trans people who arent really fucking physically unlucky dont get noticed as trans by you.
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Her3tik didn't say anything about thinking they looked weird -- just that the idea of surgery was weird.
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Now can we get a plus sized woman in one of these pagents?
Pwease...?
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Now can we get a plus sized woman in one of these pagents?
Pwease...?
Seconding that...I would participate in that.
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/10/showbiz/miss-universe-transgender/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29
The Miss Universe organization announced Tuesday it is ending its ban on transgender contestants after coming under scrutiny recently when a Canadian competitor was told she would be disqualified because she was born male.
Miss Universe officials insist the change is in spite of, not because of, legal threats from women's rights lawyer Gloria Allred made on behalf of contestant Jenna Talackova.
To be perfectly honest, I find the idea of surgically changing your gender to be really, really weird. Most of the people I've seen who've done this still look like they're part of their birth gender, making it seem like a rather ineffective procedure. With that said, I don't really care if people do it (why the hell should I?) and Jenna is one of the exceptions to the rule (picture in the link). If this controversy had never come up, I probably would not have known that she was once a guy. So, congrats to her for making it this far, sticking to her guns, and taking another step for LGBT rights and acceptance.
maybe you think most trans pople look 'really really weird' because the trans people who arent really fucking physically unlucky dont get noticed as trans by you.
...I read that in your voice.
Ironbite-STOP DOING THAT!
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Jenna was going through hormone treatment when she was 14 sothat explains why she doesn't have much masculine features.
But it's not really what other people think of you and more of how you feel yourself.
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Good for her, and good for Miss Universe.
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One thing to note though. If she has only had sexual reassignment surgery she wont have in any way done something that would make her have any kind of advantage. It would be similar to denying someone from entering the pageant because they had ovarian cancer which resulted in them being surgically removed. I can understand supporting rules that require contestants to not have undergone cosmetic surgery. However, Sexual reassignment surgery is most definitely not cosmetic surgery despite what medical insurance companies say.
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One thing to note though. If she has only had sexual reassignment surgery she wont have in any way done something that would make her have any kind of advantage. It would be similar to denying someone from entering the pageant because they had ovarian cancer which resulted in them being surgically removed. I can understand supporting rules that require contestants to not have undergone cosmetic surgery. However, Sexual reassignment surgery is most definitely not cosmetic surgery despite what medical insurance companies say.
Do you really think the people who don't want her in the contest know the difference between the two?
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One thing to note though. If she has only had sexual reassignment surgery she wont have in any way done something that would make her have any kind of advantage. It would be similar to denying someone from entering the pageant because they had ovarian cancer which resulted in them being surgically removed. I can understand supporting rules that require contestants to not have undergone cosmetic surgery. However, Sexual reassignment surgery is most definitely not cosmetic surgery despite what medical insurance companies say.
Do you really think the people who don't want her in the contest know the difference between the two?
given your initial post im not convinced YOU know the difference.
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Anyone objecting to trans-gender surgery being used to win a beauty pagent needs to look at all the other contestants and figure out just what about their looks they were born with! Fake faces, fake boobs, fake butts. So what's the big deal.
Also - just to prove I have a childish sense of humour - her name is pronounced like "Genital I covet" really? That's what I kept hearing.
Anyway - hooray for my fellow Canadian. Doing what you want to do. Good on you!
Actually, beauty pageants ban contestants who have had plastic surgery. A lot of the comments are actually people saying that because she's had surgery to alter her appearance, she has an unfair advantage.
Maybe some do but according to this http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132145&page=1 Miss Universe does not.
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One thing to note though. If she has only had sexual reassignment surgery she wont have in any way done something that would make her have any kind of advantage. It would be similar to denying someone from entering the pageant because they had ovarian cancer which resulted in them being surgically removed. I can understand supporting rules that require contestants to not have undergone cosmetic surgery. However, Sexual reassignment surgery is most definitely not cosmetic surgery despite what medical insurance companies say.
Do you really think the people who don't want her in the contest know the difference between the two?
given your initial post im not convinced YOU know the difference.
Given YOUR initial post, I'm not convinced that you're reading his posts fairly. Especially since you were corrected on what he said and are still acting like he said what you said he said.
Back off. Calm down. Take a deep breath.
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no, i read all their posts.
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no, i read all their posts.
Then did you read this part?
Her3tik didn't say anything about thinking they looked weird -- just that the idea of surgery was weird.
Because seriously, you're going on attack dog mode over someone who wasn't saying what you thought they said.
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All I said was I don't understand the desire to undergo gender reassignment procedures, and that I can usually tell the difference between pre- and post-op (at least when they started male biologically) because of certain features like more defined jawlines. However that got warped into some kind of bigotry on my end is beyond me, but others have already pointed out that you're wrong, so I've got no reason to even debate this with you.
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no, i read all their posts.
Then did you read this part?
Her3tik didn't say anything about thinking they looked weird -- just that the idea of surgery was weird.
Because seriously, you're going on attack dog mode over someone who wasn't saying what you thought they said.
so thinking that trans related surgery is wird isnt a light form of transphobia?
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no, i read all their posts.
Then did you read this part?
Her3tik didn't say anything about thinking they looked weird -- just that the idea of surgery was weird.
Because seriously, you're going on attack dog mode over someone who wasn't saying what you thought they said.
so thinking that trans related surgery is wird isnt a light form of transphobia?
No, it isn't. It simply means that he doesn't understand it. Because it isn't easy to understand these things.
It's an incredibly complex subject. Even for allies.
If he called people weird for seeking it, THAT would be transphobia.
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All I said was I don't understand the desire to undergo gender reassignment procedures, and that I can usually tell the difference between pre- and post-op (at least when they started male biologically) because of certain features like more defined jawlines. However that got warped into some kind of bigotry on my end is beyond me, but others have already pointed out that you're wrong, so I've got no reason to even debate this with you.
you THINK you can tell trans people from cis people because you have an prejudicial idea of what each of those groups look like. the trans people who dont fit your idea of trans get sorted under cis by you. you CANNOT claim to usually be able to tell the difference because you are dealign with an unknown amount who dont look obviously trans. your argument is stupid.
and theres a difference between not understanding something and calling it weird. one of those things attempts to belittle the thing your talking bout, the other doesnt.
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no, i read all their posts.
Then did you read this part?
Her3tik didn't say anything about thinking they looked weird -- just that the idea of surgery was weird.
Because seriously, you're going on attack dog mode over someone who wasn't saying what you thought they said.
so thinking that trans related surgery is wird isnt a light form of transphobia?
No, it isn't. It simply means that he doesn't understand it. Because it isn't easy to understand these things.
It's an incredibly complex subject. Even for allies.
If he called people weird for seeking it, THAT would be transphobia.
theres a difference between not understanding something and calling it weird. one involves belittling the thing, one doesnt. its not an important or particularly dangerous form of transphobia but its transphobia. and you dont get a pass from it because you call yourself an ally.
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Okay, Diamandahagan, forgive me for this, but you're being awfully naive.
The fact of the matter is, for men who transition later in life, YES, there are physical differences in the bones, and sometimes, these things are visible.
Also, usually != always. He admits that there are times he can't tell the difference with that.
Diamanda, we have MANY trans people on this forum. And many more allies. I'm one of these allies. And so is he.
I'm just going to flat out say it, you're overreacting to him. Making a mountain out of a molehill.
Calm down. Take a deep breath. This isn't worth the energy.
And no, calling something weird isn't an attempt to belittle it. I'm weird. I'm strange. And I'm proud of those things. Because it makes me who I am.
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Really? REALLY? Hagan is being naive?
Ironbite-I'm not minion material but I'll gladly take Zartan level pay for ya.
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Really? REALLY? Hagan is being naive?
Are you denying that she's overreacting?
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Okay, Diamandahagan, forgive me for this, but you're being awfully naive.
The fact of the matter is, for men who transition later in life, YES, there are physical differences in the bones, and sometimes, these things are visible.
Also, usually != always. He admits that there are times he can't tell the difference with that.
Diamanda, we have MANY trans people on this forum. And many more allies. I'm one of these allies. And so is he.
I'm just going to flat out say it, you're overreacting to him. Making a mountain out of a molehill.
Calm down. Take a deep breath. This isn't worth the energy.
And no, calling something weird isn't an attempt to belittle it. I'm weird. I'm strange. And I'm proud of those things. Because it makes me who I am.
i am not denying tha\t testosterone causes changes that make a lot of transwomen to be read as trans. im taking issue with his declaration that he can usually tell. no he cant, he just thinks he can because he doesnt think of the trans women he meets that dont 'seem' trans as trans. he has no idea about the amount of trans people he sees and doesnt realise are trans because he doesnt realise their trans. id say its massive bit of confirmation bias on his part but he's not just ignoring his failure, but has no way at all to keep track of them.
Iv heard a lot of horrible things from 'allies' towards the group their meant to be allying with. forgive me if being told that someones as an ally doesnt fill me with confidence. i dont think he's going to go around being horrible to trans people deliberately but i think he has a blindspot of light anti-trans issues.
maybe i am over-reacting but if someone who described themself as a gay ally said homosexuality was weird im pretty sure i wouldnt be the only one complaining about it. yes i know he didnt say transsexuality was weird, but theres no gay equivalent of srs to compare it with.
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I think heterosexual sex is weird.
That being said, if you want to point out a fault of his, this isn't the way to do it. You're acting like an attack dog, overreacting, and making a big deal out of it. People are much less likely to listen to anyone who's flat-out attacking them.
Don't attack. Inform. There's a big difference. One will get you listened to. The other will not.
If he made a mistake, treating him like an enemy isn't the way to correct his mistake. And you've been treating him like an enemy. You've made absolutely no attempt at treating him like someone who made a simple mistake.
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well whether i am actually low-level net personality diamanda hagan and whether i am in real life isnt really the important thing right now. all that matter are the arguments, as loud or badly thought out as mine well be.
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^ That makes me more inclined to believe you are the real Diamandahagan then, though I'm not 100% convinced simply by default (no offense, it's just how the internet works)
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Really? REALLY? Hagan is being naive?
Are you denying that she's overreacting?
Yes I am. This is an issue that is so near and dear to her heart, I think that you'd be able to offer just a touch of sympathy for her.
Ironbite-people fear what is different and often try to mold them into a shape that's more familier....ususally with a sledgehammer.
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the t community gets shit on a lot by people who see themselves as allies. often people form the lg and b communitys. maybe im being over emotional but i think i have a point. no matter how crap it is.
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Really? REALLY? Hagan is being naive?
Are you denying that she's overreacting?
Yes I am. This is an issue that is so near and dear to her heart, I think that you'd be able to offer just a touch of sympathy for her.
Ironbite-people fear what is different and often try to mold them into a shape that's more familier....ususally with a sledgehammer.
Um... people are actually MORE likely to overreact about issues near and dear to their heart.
I should know. I'm the king of overreacting to issues :P
That being said, I do sympathize with her, actually. That doesn't mean I can necessarily condone her actions.
The point's moot now, though.
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I am a transsexual myself, and I think Diamandahagan is over reacting.
Statistically speaking the vast majority of trans people transition later in life normally starting in their middle to late 30s. Add to that they generally have a history of trying to repress their feelings through ultra masculine activities they have conditioned their bodies to be noticeably male. The unfortunate truth about these late transitions is that a significant portion of them do not manage to pass easily as women. The statistics and biology are no in their favor. Also someone who has significant knowledge of trans issues will find it easier to notice a trans person because they will be able to notice the signs that are generally there on anyone who transitioned after puberty. As a transsexual myself I can notice signs because those are the very same signs I despise in my own body, I have done so on people who pass amazingly well. People who pass so well I wouldn't have suspected them at all, if I was not a transsexual myself.
Next, and this is important, non transsexuals have an incredibly hard time understanding transsexuals. It makes no sense to them. They do not understand the torment of being in the wrong body. They cannot comprehend the thought of undergoing surgery to alter ones sexual organs. To them the thought of a minor injury to their sexual organs is pretty horrific, but to a trans person undergoing a willing complete alteration of those organs is a great happy moment. The difference is perception. Someone who is at peace with their body cannot understand what it is to be at such odds with ones own body.
However despite these misunderstandings, there are many who support transsexuals. People who may not understand all the aspects of it, but who support our rights to be who we are. Not everyone will understand. I don't think anyone will ever understand completely. With the misinformation and bad press transsexuals get many have misinformed prejudices. However they will normally recant those prejudices if they are politely educated on the reality of transsexuals. It helps transsexuals far more to inform others in the complex issues surrounding transsexualism than it is to scream trans-phobia when they misspeak or don't understand something.
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^^^^^^^
I couldn't have said it better myself. Excellent post :)
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I agree, beautifully written.
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I am a transsexual myself, and I think Diamandahagan is over reacting.
Statistically speaking the vast majority of trans people transition later in life normally starting in their middle to late 30s. Add to that they generally have a history of trying to repress their feelings through ultra masculine activities they have conditioned their bodies to be noticeably male. The unfortunate truth about these late transitions is that a significant portion of them do not manage to pass easily as women. The statistics and biology are no in their favor. Also someone who has significant knowledge of trans issues will find it easier to notice a trans person because they will be able to notice the signs that are generally there on anyone who transitioned after puberty. As a transsexual myself I can notice signs because those are the very same signs I despise in my own body, I have done so on people who pass amazingly well. People who pass so well I wouldn't have suspected them at all, if I was not a transsexual myself.
Next, and this is important, non transsexuals have an incredibly hard time understanding transsexuals. It makes no sense to them. They do not understand the torment of being in the wrong body. They cannot comprehend the thought of undergoing surgery to alter ones sexual organs. To them the thought of a minor injury to their sexual organs is pretty horrific, but to a trans person undergoing a willing complete alteration of those organs is a great happy moment. The difference is perception. Someone who is at peace with their body cannot understand what it is to be at such odds with ones own body.
However despite these misunderstandings, there are many who support transsexuals. People who may not understand all the aspects of it, but who support our rights to be who we are. Not everyone will understand. I don't think anyone will ever understand completely. With the misinformation and bad press transsexuals get many have misinformed prejudices. However they will normally recant those prejudices if they are politely educated on the reality of transsexuals. It helps transsexuals far more to inform others in the complex issues surrounding transsexualism than it is to scream trans-phobia when they misspeak or don't understand something.
Sweet Odin I love it when someone looks an issue in the fact and can just speak the honest truth! Great post!
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I am a transsexual myself, and I think Diamandahagan is over reacting.
Statistically speaking the vast majority of trans people transition later in life normally starting in their middle to late 30s. Add to that they generally have a history of trying to repress their feelings through ultra masculine activities they have conditioned their bodies to be noticeably male. The unfortunate truth about these late transitions is that a significant portion of them do not manage to pass easily as women. The statistics and biology are no in their favor. Also someone who has significant knowledge of trans issues will find it easier to notice a trans person because they will be able to notice the signs that are generally there on anyone who transitioned after puberty. As a transsexual myself I can notice signs because those are the very same signs I despise in my own body, I have done so on people who pass amazingly well. People who pass so well I wouldn't have suspected them at all, if I was not a transsexual myself.
Next, and this is important, non transsexuals have an incredibly hard time understanding transsexuals. It makes no sense to them. They do not understand the torment of being in the wrong body. They cannot comprehend the thought of undergoing surgery to alter ones sexual organs. To them the thought of a minor injury to their sexual organs is pretty horrific, but to a trans person undergoing a willing complete alteration of those organs is a great happy moment. The difference is perception. Someone who is at peace with their body cannot understand what it is to be at such odds with ones own body.
However despite these misunderstandings, there are many who support transsexuals. People who may not understand all the aspects of it, but who support our rights to be who we are. Not everyone will understand. I don't think anyone will ever understand completely. With the misinformation and bad press transsexuals get many have misinformed prejudices. However they will normally recant those prejudices if they are politely educated on the reality of transsexuals. It helps transsexuals far more to inform others in the complex issues surrounding transsexualism than it is to scream trans-phobia when they misspeak or don't understand something.
Thank you. This is exactly what needed to be said.
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so thinking that trans related surgery is wird isnt a light form of transphobia?
No, it isn't. And I say that as a transman who very much wants genital surgery one day.
Merriam-Webster defines weird as "of strange or extraordinary character." Extraordinary is defined as "going beyond what is usual, regular, or customary."
I don't think anyone will argue that having surgery (or even just taking hormones) to change your body in such a drastic way is "beyond usual." That doesn't mean it is wrong; it only means it isn't what a vast majority of people do.
Heck, given how some FtM genital surgery is done, I think even the procedure is weird! (One procedure removes skin and underlying tissue from either the abdomen or the arm and grafts it onto the clitoris to form a penis. A new procedure removes the middle finger of the non-dominant hand to form the basis of the penis.)
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Count me in the "doesn't understand but is supportive" group. There's lots of things in this world I don't understand. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them.
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As someone who is cisgendered, one tool I've often employed to help me understand what trans-people go through is to imagine what it would be like if I woke up tomorrow and discovered that I'd somehow been transferred into a male body. It's not a perfect comparison, of course, but thinking about how I would feel if everyone around me suddenly perceived me as male, began referring to me using male pronouns, and insisted that I was a man because I suddenly had this male body has helped me to at least gain some perspective on what it's like to go through life in the wrong body, even if I can never truly understand what it's like to be transgendered.
In any case, as others have said, I do not need to fully understand something in order to empathize with people who are going through it.
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I like the whole "Get into an accident and lose your genitals, and have people around you insist that you aren't the gender you are"
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While it's not really comparable, furries catch a lot of shit because people don't understand them and think they all go around humping each other in mascot costumes. I assume most people here do understand furries better than most so I won't go into it all here. Before anyone asks, no, I wouldn't call myself a furry. Though I would totally go around dressed in a animal costume, because I think it would be fun as hell.
Sylvana pretty much covered about anything I could have contributed to the discussion.
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And then there's otherkin, who catch a lot of flack for "attempting to piggyback the trans issues"
Granted, otherkin/therian are more or less shoved into the same category as "furries" for the purposes of mockery (and in fact, many people confuse furries for otherkin/therian and vice versa) and it's all just a huge mess of 'Hey, mind your own business'
I won't elaborate on it too much because I don't wish to offend any sensibilities here :P
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Count me in the "doesn't understand but is supportive" group. There's lots of things in this world I don't understand. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them.
I'm in.
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so thinking that trans related surgery is wird isnt a light form of transphobia?
Heck, given how some FtM genital surgery is done, I think even the procedure is weird! (One procedure removes skin and underlying tissue from either the abdomen or the arm and grafts it onto the clitoris to form a penis. A new procedure removes the middle finger of the non-dominant hand to form the basis of the penis.)
... yecch.
Just wondering, can you do the surgery through donors? I'm thinking that maybe I can donate. It seems less intrusive although I'm not sure if it would work anatomically.
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Organ donor penii? I guess that could work. Some donors might be more in demand than others though. Could cause bidding wars.