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Community => Religion and Philosophy => Topic started by: Saturn500 on June 17, 2012, 02:01:16 pm

Title: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: Saturn500 on June 17, 2012, 02:01:16 pm
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/06/does-the-bible-make-people-atheists.html (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/06/does-the-bible-make-people-atheists.html)

An ex-fundie asks: will Christians who read the Bible become atheists?

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Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: Barbarella on June 17, 2012, 02:30:11 pm
The Bible, especially the OT would make any sane person question their faith, that's for darn sure!

Fundies, however, are not sane people.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: Rime on June 17, 2012, 03:06:42 pm
Fundies like to use the bible as if it's some shortcut to holiness.  The problem with this is it is exactly the kind of behaviour that Jesus was frequently confronted with and walked all over in the Gospels.

A favourite quote regarding New Rabbis:



Quote
Real Live Preacher wrote: (http://www.reallivepreacher.com/node/623)
The truths of the bible are utterly beyond anyone who seeks to own truth and who seeks truth above the Spirit of God.

The bible is not a book for those who need a weapon. It is not a book for those who know where they are going and what questions they will ask. It is not a book for those who are in a hurry and looking for the shortest route.

The bible is a book for pilgrims and wanderers. It is a book for children and for those who wish to become children again. It is a book for seekers and searchers and dreamers.

It is a book for anyone and everyone who hopes that the desires of God might be written upon their hearts.

Even if I don't believe in God, I can totally support this.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: N. De Plume on June 17, 2012, 04:06:38 pm
Quote
Real Live Preacher wrote: (http://www.reallivepreacher.com/node/623)
The truths of the bible are utterly beyond anyone who seeks to own truth and who seeks truth above the Spirit of God.

The bible is not a book for those who need a weapon. It is not a book for those who know where they are going and what questions they will ask. It is not a book for those who are in a hurry and looking for the shortest route.

The bible is a book for pilgrims and wanderers. It is a book for children and for those who wish to become children again. It is a book for seekers and searchers and dreamers.

It is a book for anyone and everyone who hopes that the desires of God might be written upon their hearts.

Even if I don't believe in God, I can totally support this.

It seems to me that if I wished to become a child again that I would have to read the Bible rather selectively. There are a hell of passages strike me as counterproductive to that goal.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: Old Viking on June 17, 2012, 04:31:31 pm
If it were not for its identity, the Bible is a book that no decent person would have in the house.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: ThunderWulf on June 18, 2012, 12:59:18 am
Hell, reading the bible as a whole is a large part of what made me start doubting my faith.  Most fundies though will never actually read enough the bible enough to realize that though.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: Art Vandelay on June 18, 2012, 01:11:20 am
I find it rather interesting that, within a huge group of people that sincerely believe the Bible contains teachings that determine whether you're tortured for all eternity or not, people who've actually read it cover to cover are the exception rather than the rule. If I honestly believed in Christianity, you'd better believe I'd make reading the whole Bible a top priority.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: Sylvana on June 18, 2012, 03:19:44 am
I used to be borderline fundie, I started reading the bible properly during one home cell evening and as a result I finally abandoned my faith. Reading the bible properly is probably one of the fastest ways to loose ones faith as you see it for the manipulative words of old men trying to control others through religion. At that point with the only source for Christianity being seen as flawed and unreliable one can only take the next step and find Christianity as a whole unfounded.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: Rime on June 18, 2012, 04:36:43 am
Quote
Real Live Preacher wrote: (http://www.reallivepreacher.com/node/623)
The truths of the bible are utterly beyond anyone who seeks to own truth and who seeks truth above the Spirit of God.

The bible is not a book for those who need a weapon. It is not a book for those who know where they are going and what questions they will ask. It is not a book for those who are in a hurry and looking for the shortest route.

The bible is a book for pilgrims and wanderers. It is a book for children and for those who wish to become children again. It is a book for seekers and searchers and dreamers.

It is a book for anyone and everyone who hopes that the desires of God might be written upon their hearts.

Even if I don't believe in God, I can totally support this.

It seems to me that if I wished to become a child again that I would have to read the Bible rather selectively. There are a hell of passages strike me as counterproductive to that goal.

He also wrote in another essay (http://www.reallivepreacher.com/node/642) that said it's read it critically and selectively or you're lying to yourself and everyone else.  The big point of putting that excerpt there was that people who try to own the truth and use the Bible as a lever or some sort of rulebook are the exact same people 2000 years ago who would have been trying to push Roman soldiers out of the way so they could drive in the nails themselves.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: N. De Plume on June 18, 2012, 06:41:09 am
Quote
Real Live Preacher wrote: (http://www.reallivepreacher.com/node/623)
The truths of the bible are utterly beyond anyone who seeks to own truth and who seeks truth above the Spirit of God.

The bible is not a book for those who need a weapon. It is not a book for those who know where they are going and what questions they will ask. It is not a book for those who are in a hurry and looking for the shortest route.

The bible is a book for pilgrims and wanderers. It is a book for children and for those who wish to become children again. It is a book for seekers and searchers and dreamers.

It is a book for anyone and everyone who hopes that the desires of God might be written upon their hearts.

Even if I don't believe in God, I can totally support this.

It seems to me that if I wished to become a child again that I would have to read the Bible rather selectively. There are a hell of passages strike me as counterproductive to that goal.

He also wrote in another essay (http://www.reallivepreacher.com/node/642) that said it's read it critically and selectively or you're lying to yourself and everyone else.

Reading critically is vital to any work of significance.

But if you have to read selectively—if it if loses significance or ceases to make sense when you look at the whole—Then there is a major problem withe the work.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: Rime on June 18, 2012, 05:48:14 pm
He also wrote in another essay (http://www.reallivepreacher.com/node/642) that said it's read it critically and selectively or you're lying to yourself and everyone else.

Reading critically is vital to any work of significance.

But if you have to read selectively—if it if loses significance or ceases to make sense when you look at the whole—Then there is a major problem withe the work.

I've seen both sides of this coin.  I've seen Ikester, Benedict XVI and Troy Brooks.  Then there's Sandman, Jim Wallis and Real Live Preacher.  The work may not make total sense, but I feel it's much more dependent on the attitude of its interpreter.  Otherwise, I don't think 30 million Catholics would have left the church in the USA in the last five years.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: e13 on June 18, 2012, 09:42:24 pm
He also wrote in another essay (http://www.reallivepreacher.com/node/642) that said it's read it critically and selectively or you're lying to yourself and everyone else.

Reading critically is vital to any work of significance.

But if you have to read selectively—if it if loses significance or ceases to make sense when you look at the whole—Then there is a major problem withe the work.

I've seen both sides of this coin.  I've seen Ikester, Benedict XVI and Troy Brooks.  Then there's Sandman, Jim Wallis and Real Live Preacher.  The work may not make total sense, but I feel it's much more dependent on the attitude of its interpreter.  Otherwise, I don't think 30 million Catholics would have left the church in the USA in the last five years.
Can you cite this statistic. I'm really interested in where you got this...  :-\
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: Stormwarden on June 18, 2012, 10:58:04 pm
I read the Bible, and it made an atheist out of me. I couldn't trade my humanity in. Penn Gillette was right.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: TheL on June 19, 2012, 07:03:08 am
I read the Bible, and I became Wiccan.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: Star Cluster on June 19, 2012, 09:36:05 am
In my way of thinking, I don't think the Bible in and of itself is going to make anyone become an atheist unless there is at least a seed of doubt already there.  Most people that read the Bible are looking for validation for their faith and confirmation that their god is the true inspiration for its writing.   Most of them are so blinded by the need to keep believing that they do not understand that many events told of in the "good book" are atrocities instead of the actions of a loving god taking care of "his people" that they think they are.  They just gloss over those parts and think "Wow, what a powerful being God must be."

Until someone delves into the Bible with an open mind and eyes wide open can the Bible turn them away from Christianity.  After all, if they weren't so blinded by faith, they would realize that the holy books of other religions are thought by their adherents to be the true word of god just as much as Christians think the Bible is.  Everybody can't be right. 

This is the thing that really got me to thinking about religion in general a long time ago.  If Christianity was the one true and indisputable religion that Christians think it is, why are there other religions.  Obviously, the Bible isn't as confirmed as they like to think it is.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: Barbarella on June 19, 2012, 02:39:05 pm
I read the Bible, and I became Wiccan.

Ditto for me. I switched to a less insane spirituality.

Not every person is inclined to non-spirituality. Some folks see the stupidity of dogmatic scriptures & religion and become full atheists. That's perfectly fine & I respect that.

Folks like you & I, however, still feel that the spiritual is very real, no matter what & make a switch to a different sort of faith system that's less structured or less insane. That's fine, too.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: Rime on June 19, 2012, 03:52:42 pm
He also wrote in another essay (http://www.reallivepreacher.com/node/642) that said it's read it critically and selectively or you're lying to yourself and everyone else.

Reading critically is vital to any work of significance.

But if you have to read selectively—if it if loses significance or ceases to make sense when you look at the whole—Then there is a major problem withe the work.

I've seen both sides of this coin.  I've seen Ikester, Benedict XVI and Troy Brooks.  Then there's Sandman, Jim Wallis and Real Live Preacher.  The work may not make total sense, but I feel it's much more dependent on the attitude of its interpreter.  Otherwise, I don't think 30 million Catholics would have left the church in the USA in the last five years.
Can you cite this statistic. I'm really interested in where you got this...  :-\

It appears my timeframe isn't accurate, but there are 30 million people who cal themselves former Catholics.  the Pew Foundation has a report (http://religions.pewforum.org/reports) on it and they're the ones stating that it's 30 million.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: e13 on June 19, 2012, 04:20:00 pm
He also wrote in another essay (http://www.reallivepreacher.com/node/642) that said it's read it critically and selectively or you're lying to yourself and everyone else.

Reading critically is vital to any work of significance.

But if you have to read selectively—if it if loses significance or ceases to make sense when you look at the whole—Then there is a major problem withe the work.

I've seen both sides of this coin.  I've seen Ikester, Benedict XVI and Troy Brooks.  Then there's Sandman, Jim Wallis and Real Live Preacher.  The work may not make total sense, but I feel it's much more dependent on the attitude of its interpreter.  Otherwise, I don't think 30 million Catholics would have left the church in the USA in the last five years.
Can you cite this statistic. I'm really interested in where you got this...  :-\

It appears my timeframe isn't accurate, but there are 30 million people who cal themselves former Catholics.  the Pew Foundation has a report (http://religions.pewforum.org/reports) on it and they're the ones stating that it's 30 million.
Thanks! It's a pretty large number, and I don't want to work with it unless I know there was something to back it up.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: Fpqxz on June 19, 2012, 08:00:08 pm
I say people should read every religious/philosophical book, if they have the time and desire.

The Bible, the Quran, the Vedas, the Zend Avesta, the Popul Vuh, the Analects of Confucius (which I strongly recommend, BTW)...you can learn something from each of them.  Just don't be naive enough to accept everything therein as as absolute divine truth.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: TheL on June 20, 2012, 10:05:15 am
In my way of thinking, I don't think the Bible in and of itself is going to make anyone become an atheist unless there is at least a seed of doubt already there.  Most people that read the Bible are looking for validation for their faith and confirmation that their god is the true inspiration for its writing.

This.  However, bear in mind that the reason some people are looking for that validation is because of that doubt.  This was the case for me--I honestly believed that reading the Bible would strengthen my Christian faith, and I felt myself "slipping" and believed that I desperately needed that strength.


Until someone delves into the Bible with an open mind and eyes wide open can the Bible turn them away from Christianity.  After all, if they weren't so blinded by faith, they would realize that the holy books of other religions are thought by their adherents to be the true word of god just as much as Christians think the Bible is.  Everybody can't be right. 

I already knew this from an early age.  However, this only reinforced the idea that some people can think they're right when they're not, and that culture can influence someone's ideas of what is right and what isn't.  It didn't disabuse me of the notion that "we're right, you're wrong, neener neener," for the same reasons that learning about Ptolemy's geocentric model of the universe didn't make me abandon the heliocentric model.  Quite simply, the fact that there are cases where one viewpoint is clearly "right" blinded me to the fact that things don't always work that way for YEARS.

Also, most non-Abrahamic religions don't treat their holy books in quite the same way as Christians deify their Bible.

I read the Bible, and I became Wiccan.

Ditto for me. I switched to a less insane spirituality.

Not every person is inclined to non-spirituality. Some folks see the stupidity of dogmatic scriptures & religion and become full atheists. That's perfectly fine & I respect that.

Folks like you & I, however, still feel that the spiritual is very real, no matter what & make a switch to a different sort of faith system that's less structured or less insane. That's fine, too.

Oh, some of us are most definitely insane. :)  But at least the New Age crazies are crazy in a way that doesn't cause them to harm other people.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: Barbarella on June 20, 2012, 10:08:13 am
I say people should read every religious/philosophical book, if they have the time and desire.

The Bible, the Quran, the Vedas, the Zend Avesta, the Popul Vuh, the Analects of Confucius (which I strongly recommend, BTW)...you can learn something from each of them.  Just don't be naive enough to accept everything therein as as absolute divine truth.

I agree. In fact. A critical-yet-universalist take on spirituality is best.

After much thinking & reading this post....I'm gonna ditch focusing on one Religious Trad (Shakta Hinduism) & just be an Eclectic NeoPagan.

Say hello to me: SPUKIKITTY - ECLECTIC UNIVERSALIST NEOPAGAN. Howdy!
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: Vypernight on June 20, 2012, 03:48:48 pm
I say people should read every religious/philosophical book, if they have the time and desire.

The Bible, the Quran, the Vedas, the Zend Avesta, the Popul Vuh, the Analects of Confucius (which I strongly recommend, BTW)...you can learn something from each of them.  Just don't be naive enough to accept everything therein as as absolute divine truth.

I have those set aside for the future in my Amazon cart.  Thanks.  I also recommend The Tao Te Ching, The Dhammapeda, The God Delusion, and The Satanic Bible, among others.  Might as well see all points of view, whether you agree with them or not. 

Personally, when I was going through my 'spiritual crisis,' my friend (who would be characterized as a Red Letter Christian) lent me his Bible.  That was 7 or 8 years ago.  I am now a Buddhist and agnostic.
Title: Re: Does the Bible make people atheist? - Libby Anne
Post by: Neith on June 20, 2012, 08:01:45 pm
I started reading the Bible to get rid of my doubt and get closer to this "God" both of my grandmothers believed in, but before I could get even halfway through the first Creation account, it was already obvious that it was just like all the other ancient superstitious myths.  I continued to read it after that, but with the understanding that it was written by ignorant people. I did entertain the notion of multiple gods for a short while after losing what Christian beliefs I did have (it still makes more sense than the schizophrenic god described in the Bible), but it didn't take long for me to lose all theistic beliefs once I started understanding how the universe, earth, and life have all developed.

In short, I think the Bible can make some people atheist, but can just be a good step toward it for others.