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Community => Society and History => Topic started by: wrightway on August 04, 2013, 06:01:10 pm

Title: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: wrightway on August 04, 2013, 06:01:10 pm
Where did this whole "If you sleep with them you're sleeping with everyone they've slept with" thing come from? I had a relative tell me I should be diseased because my ex has quite a few other exes. She brought up the argument and said I might as well have slept with hundreds or even thousands of people. Because condoms aren't a thing. Because there's never interdating among a group. I tried to explain these things and just got a mildly irritating speech on abstinence being the only answer. And a much more irritating diatribe on morality never changing. She said my flow chart that shows interdating among his group just proved her point.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Sleepy on August 04, 2013, 06:10:31 pm
I have no idea when the phrase actually appeared, but I'm guessing it was during a time where condoms were less frequently used and STDs were running wild. If you're not using protection and you have sex with people who also never used protection, then yeah, you could be sleeping with everyone that person ever slept with, in the sense that you could contract all sorts of lovely diseases that have been passed down the chain. But I'd like to think most people are smarter than that. Of course, there are STDs that are asymptomatic, so people could pass the disease on unknowingly, as well.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Old Viking on August 04, 2013, 07:02:13 pm
Abstinence makes the heart grow fonder.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Shane for Wax on August 04, 2013, 08:41:47 pm
I have no idea when the phrase actually appeared, but I'm guessing it was during a time where condoms were less frequently used and STDs were running wild. If you're not using protection and you have sex with people who also never used protection, then yeah, you could be sleeping with everyone that person ever slept with, in the sense that you could contract all sorts of lovely diseases that have been passed down the chain. But I'd like to think most people are smarter than that. Of course, there are STDs that are asymptomatic, so people could pass the disease on unknowingly, as well.

Sleepy said it but I was gonna be an ass and suggest something like 'six degrees of Kevin Bacon' or 'the Our Chart (it's an L Word reference how long has it been since I've used an L Word reference?)'.

I do know that I've been seeing commercials recently that are insisting people wear condoms even if their STD/STI symptoms aren't showing. As Sleepy said, asymptomatic does not mean you're cured or you can't give the disease to someone else.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: wrightway on August 04, 2013, 08:52:24 pm
I'm guessing I framed it poorly. I'm mainly wondering why these people think sex outside of marriage automatically makes you a diseased slut.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Witchyjoshy on August 04, 2013, 09:32:08 pm
I'm guessing I framed it poorly. I'm mainly wondering why these people think sex outside of marriage automatically makes you a diseased slut.

Hold on...

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: The Illusive Man on August 04, 2013, 09:32:56 pm
Where did this whole "If you sleep with them you're sleeping with everyone they've slept with" thing come from?
I'm guessing I framed it poorly. I'm mainly wondering why these people think sex outside of marriage automatically makes you a diseased slut.
People trying to push abstinence only BS. It is the warping of calculated risk percentages when engaging in safer sex. (http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/condoms-protect-against-hiv) Disingenuous scum try to assign fear to an act of sex be encouraging mutual distrust among partners. It always boils down to “How much do you really know about your partner and his/her partner(s)?” I have seen this being pushed in high schools.

The effectiveness of a condom remains the same regardless of previous partners. Only improper usage causes a lack of effectiveness. They should be demonstrating how to use condoms properly instead of fear mongering.

I tried to find way in which to turn the results of a recent blood test that contains limited amounts of personal info into a token of trust. Sort of like Public Key Infrastructure, an exchange of certificates if you will.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: chitoryu12 on August 04, 2013, 09:33:42 pm
I have no idea when the phrase actually appeared, but I'm guessing it was during a time where condoms were less frequently used and STDs were running wild. If you're not using protection and you have sex with people who also never used protection, then yeah, you could be sleeping with everyone that person ever slept with, in the sense that you could contract all sorts of lovely diseases that have been passed down the chain. But I'd like to think most people are smarter than that. Of course, there are STDs that are asymptomatic, so people could pass the disease on unknowingly, as well.

Sleepy said it but I was gonna be an ass and suggest something like 'six degrees of Kevin Bacon' or 'the Our Chart (it's an L Word reference how long has it been since I've used an L Word reference?)'.

I do know that I've been seeing commercials recently that are insisting people wear condoms even if their STD/STI symptoms aren't showing. As Sleepy said, asymptomatic does not mean you're cured or you can't give the disease to someone else.

I legit have a Bacon number of 3. I should probably be careful when I inhale on set, or I might start dancing and looking weird.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Canadian Mojo on August 04, 2013, 10:46:36 pm
I have no idea when the phrase actually appeared, but I'm guessing it was during a time where condoms were less frequently used and STDs were running wild. If you're not using protection and you have sex with people who also never used protection, then yeah, you could be sleeping with everyone that person ever slept with, in the sense that you could contract all sorts of lovely diseases that have been passed down the chain. But I'd like to think most people are smarter than that. Of course, there are STDs that are asymptomatic, so people could pass the disease on unknowingly, as well.
I know it goes back at least as far as the beginning of the AIDS epidemic because I remember hearing that line in my sex ed. classes which just happened to coincide with people starting to get really worried about the disease and the fact that if you got it, you died. Period.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Damen on August 04, 2013, 11:03:40 pm
Abstinence makes the heart grow fonder go yonder.

Fix'd that for ya.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Sleepy on August 05, 2013, 09:07:55 am
I'm guessing I framed it poorly. I'm mainly wondering why these people think sex outside of marriage automatically makes you a diseased slut.

I guess it's the whole "back in my day" thing, where women were much more stigmatized if they were caught screwing around unwed. I'm not sure if women back then were more frequently told that premarital sex was wrong, or that it would lead to disease, or a combination of the two. But people will always find ways to push abstinence, despite the utter bullshit that it is.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Her3tiK on August 05, 2013, 09:35:38 am
I'm guessing I framed it poorly. I'm mainly wondering why these people think sex outside of marriage automatically makes you a diseased slut.

I guess it's the whole "back in my day" thing, where women were much more stigmatized if they were caught screwing around unwed. I'm not sure if women back then were more frequently told that premarital sex was wrong, or that it would lead to disease, or a combination of the two. But people will always find ways to push abstinence, despite the utter bullshit that it is.
"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" - Red Foreman.

And, judging by the comments of way too many guys I've talked to in LA, a woman who sleeps around as much as a guy is a diseased slut, and sleeping with her will "make your dick fall off". It has something to do with wanting the woman to be "pure" or some such nonsense, and generally come from guys that, in my experience, refer to almost every woman they come across as a 'bitch' or a 'slut'.

Fun fact: this mindset is why I don't generally hang out with other guys.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Katsuro on August 05, 2013, 11:27:14 am
...and a much more irritating diatribe on morality never changing.

So that must be why it is still considered acceptable to beat your wife.

[Sarcasm - in case anyone's meter is broken.]
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: mellenORL on August 05, 2013, 12:23:30 pm
How to respond to a fundie slut shamer;

"Do you realize that when you eat with a fork in a restaurant, that you are sticking a thing in your mouth that has been in THOUSANDS of other mouths before yours?"

That's my answer. Deny it.   :P
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: wrightway on August 05, 2013, 12:49:06 pm
I figured there wasn't too much secular reasoning behind it.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Jack Mann on August 07, 2013, 04:58:47 am
See, when they taught this in my sex ed class, they were just trying to get us to wear condoms.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Askold on August 07, 2013, 05:07:22 am
See, when they taught this in my sex ed class, they were just trying to get us to wear condoms.

Same here. Apart from one religious group, all sex-education I've gotten has been about safe sex. Everyone is quick to point out that it is totally ok not to have sex before you get married but if you do have sex then you should either use a condom or have a monogamous relationship. (Although it is suggested even then to go to a medical checkup with the boy/girl so that you both are checked for STD's.)
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Her3tiK on August 07, 2013, 09:46:29 am
See, when they taught this in my sex ed class, they were just trying to get us to wear condoms.

Same here. Apart from one religious group, all sex-education I've gotten has been about safe sex. Everyone is quick to point out that it is totally ok not to have sex before you get married but if you do have sex then you should either use a condom or have a monogamous relationship. (Although it is suggested even then to go to a medical checkup with the boy/girl so that you both are checked for STD's.)
That was my experience, though the safety of abstinence was stressed a bit. I don't mind that so much, since they did at least explain how various forms of birth control and STD protection work.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Jack Mann on August 07, 2013, 10:44:43 am
To be fair, abstinence does work.  It is a viable option if the kids have that kind of self-control.  Some of 'em do.  It just becomes a problem when it's the only method taught.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Askold on August 07, 2013, 11:53:07 am
To be fair, abstinence does work.  It is a viable option if the kids have that kind of self-control.  Some of 'em do.  It just becomes a problem when it's the only method taught.
This is something that should be hammered into the heads of every fundy that tries to tamper with sex education.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: LeTipex on August 08, 2013, 08:56:48 pm
To be fair, abstinence does work.  It is a viable option if the kids have that kind of self-control.  Some of 'em do.  It just becomes a problem when it's the only method taught.
I seem to remember a study that showed that teaching abstinence-only actually led to more cases of STDs than any other type of sex education (even worse than not actually having any sex ed). Which would be pretty understandable : teens aren't known for their self-control, after all (pretty much the opposite...).

Also, fuck slut shaming. I'm 26, I've had more than 50 partners, and some of my best sex has been with a girl 4 years my junior who makes me look like a frikkin prude. I love sluts. My best friends and my best lovers (both boys and girls) are sluts.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: chitoryu12 on August 09, 2013, 03:22:50 am
I'd probably be a complete manslut if I cared more about getting laid.

Like, I love it and want it and all. I just don't really suffer from sexual frustration at all, so I've gone for literally multiple years with no sex and I'm still perfectly fine. Most people who hear about my sex life think that I must be about ready to explode or treat me with a similar tone that you'd use with someone who recently lost a limb.

Same with me being single so much. A girl (who, I should point out for posterity, has had two kids with two different guys in the past 2 years and is still going from guy to guy until they get scared off) was trying to advise me to use various methods to pick up chicks at work that would get me fired near-instantly until I finally told her "I'm really not as broken up about being single as you seem to think I am."
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Flying Mint Bunny! on August 09, 2013, 08:46:07 am
I'd probably be a complete manslut if I cared more about getting laid.

Like, I love it and want it and all. I just don't really suffer from sexual frustration at all, so I've gone for literally multiple years with no sex and I'm still perfectly fine. Most people who hear about my sex life think that I must be about ready to explode or treat me with a similar tone that you'd use with someone who recently lost a limb.

Same with me being single so much. A girl (who, I should point out for posterity, has had two kids with two different guys in the past 2 years and is still going from guy to guy until they get scared off) was trying to advise me to use various methods to pick up chicks at work that would get me fired near-instantly until I finally told her "I'm really not as broken up about being single as you seem to think I am."

I don't get why people assume that you must be sexually frustrated if you aren't having sex.

Haven't they heard of masturbation?
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Sleepy on August 09, 2013, 09:12:15 am
Masturbation isn't satisfying in the same way, but I agree that lack of sex doesn't automatically equal frustration.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Leafy on August 09, 2013, 10:33:50 am
See, when they taught this in my sex ed class, they were just trying to get us to wear condoms.

Same here. Apart from one religious group, all sex-education I've gotten has been about safe sex. Everyone is quick to point out that it is totally ok not to have sex before you get married but if you do have sex then you should either use a condom or have a monogamous relationship. (Although it is suggested even then to go to a medical checkup with the boy/girl so that you both are checked for STD's.)
That was my experience, though the safety of abstinence was stressed a bit. I don't mind that so much, since they did at least explain how various forms of birth control and STD protection work.
I remember having to sign a paper saying I wouldn't have sex until marriage. We did have a lesson on protection though.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Her3tiK on August 09, 2013, 01:19:18 pm
See, when they taught this in my sex ed class, they were just trying to get us to wear condoms.

Same here. Apart from one religious group, all sex-education I've gotten has been about safe sex. Everyone is quick to point out that it is totally ok not to have sex before you get married but if you do have sex then you should either use a condom or have a monogamous relationship. (Although it is suggested even then to go to a medical checkup with the boy/girl so that you both are checked for STD's.)
That was my experience, though the safety of abstinence was stressed a bit. I don't mind that so much, since they did at least explain how various forms of birth control and STD protection work.
I remember having to sign a paper saying I wouldn't have sex until marriage. We did have a lesson on protection though.
Masturbation isn't satisfying in the same way, but I agree that lack of sex doesn't automatically equal frustration.
What Sleepy said. Though my two year dry spell, pardon the pun, seems to be going to my head. Having a campus job, where I'm surrounded by 18y/o girls (which feels so, so wrong now that I'm 23), is not helping matters. It's manageable for the most part, but there is a slowly growing frustration that's a little uncomfortable to deal with.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: chitoryu12 on August 09, 2013, 02:35:46 pm
My last sexual contact whatsoever was December 2011. The last time I had actual intercourse was a year before that. And many, many of my friends and coworkers are very attractive young women.

People think I should be either salivating at their heels with a raging boner or trying to simultaneously ask out every single person I know.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Witchyjoshy on August 09, 2013, 05:00:39 pm
My sexual frustration amounts to not being able to find any good wank material that I haven't seen before.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: gomer21xx on August 10, 2013, 01:20:14 pm
To be fair, abstinence does work.  It is a viable option if the kids have that kind of self-control.  Some of 'em do.  It just becomes a problem when it's the only method taught.
I seem to remember a study that showed that teaching abstinence-only actually led to more cases of STDs than any other type of sex education (even worse than not actually having any sex ed). Which would be pretty understandable : teens aren't known for their self-control, after all (pretty much the opposite...).

Also, fuck slut shaming. I'm 26, I've had more than 50 partners, and some of my best sex has been with a girl 4 years my junior who makes me look like a frikkin prude. I love sluts. My best friends and my best lovers (both boys and girls) are sluts.

Fifty partners?  I'm impressed. =)

Fun fact:  Laci Green once playfully called me a whore for having sixteen sexual partners. =)
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on August 11, 2013, 03:03:18 am
Abstinence makes the heart grow fonder.
No, it makes the church grow fondlers.
My sexual frustration amounts to not being able to find any good wank material that I haven't seen before.
Motherless.com. Avoid the stuff that scares you, though.

That said, I'd be a manslut if it was possible for me to do so. I'm a socially awkward loser, though.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Witchyjoshy on August 11, 2013, 04:45:40 am
I have very specific tastes and I'm not sure I even want to look at that site.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Askold on August 11, 2013, 05:52:29 am
It has a wide selection but that also means that unless you are an omnivore* when it comes to porn you'll also come across plenty of stuff you don't like.


*Please note that in this particular sentence, I wasn't referring to "vore" porn.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Meshakhad on August 11, 2013, 05:53:12 am
My sex-ed class didn't cover contraception at all. Wasn't even the pro-abstinence approach. Nothing.

I think it had to do with the rather odd nature of Jewish law regarding sex. Strictly speaking, there's no point where a Jew gets a choice whether or not to be sexually active. Outside of marriage, sex is forbidden. Within marriage, sex is mandatory. At least once a week. Preferably on Shabbat.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on August 11, 2013, 01:53:11 pm
It has a wide selection but that also means that unless you are an omnivore* when it comes to porn you'll also come across plenty of stuff you don't like.


*Please note that in this particular sentence, I wasn't referring to "vore" porn.
Yeah, pretty much. Although, you can normally avoid stuff you don't like, because it's normally evident via the thumbnail (it moves and cycles if you hover over it).
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: chitoryu12 on August 11, 2013, 09:42:58 pm
I refuse to confirm or deny the good stuff on Motherless.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: The Illusive Man on August 15, 2013, 06:06:17 pm
Lol motherless.com, camewhores disturbing? Why? Worries about being van’d due to that teen site they link I understand. 
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: chitoryu12 on August 15, 2013, 06:16:42 pm
Motherless actually isn't the bastion of pedophilia that some people seem to think it is. They let all sorts of weird shit onto the site, but they remove anything illegal (especially child pornography) and report it to the authorities. They can be so fast about removing content that you can find dead links on the front page.

That said, they ONLY remove stuff that's illegal. All sorts of shit, including the shit-related shit, is available on there for just about any fetish or depravity. It can be a bit of a minefield.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on August 15, 2013, 10:01:47 pm
Motherless actually isn't the bastion of pedophilia that some people seem to think it is. They let all sorts of weird shit onto the site, but they remove anything illegal (especially child pornography) and report it to the authorities. They can be so fast about removing content that you can find dead links on the front page.

That said, they ONLY remove stuff that's illegal. All sorts of shit, including the shit-related shit, is available on there for just about any fetish or depravity. It can be a bit of a minefield.
Exactly. They're like ninjas of porn. Assassinating crime wherever it is erected.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: LeTipex on August 16, 2013, 12:53:37 am
To be fair, abstinence does work.  It is a viable option if the kids have that kind of self-control.  Some of 'em do.  It just becomes a problem when it's the only method taught.
I seem to remember a study that showed that teaching abstinence-only actually led to more cases of STDs than any other type of sex education (even worse than not actually having any sex ed). Which would be pretty understandable : teens aren't known for their self-control, after all (pretty much the opposite...).

Also, fuck slut shaming. I'm 26, I've had more than 50 partners, and some of my best sex has been with a girl 4 years my junior who makes me look like a frikkin prude. I love sluts. My best friends and my best lovers (both boys and girls) are sluts.

Fifty partners?  I'm impressed. =)

Fun fact:  Laci Green once playfully called me a whore for having sixteen sexual partners. =)
You should see my roomate. Make me look like an amateur.
(Of course, she's : 1. a girl, 2. a stripper, 3. a kung-fu black belt. So, very pretty, very sex-positive, and very confident that she can handle herself if she ever comes in contact with douchebags. That probably helps.)
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: chitoryu12 on August 16, 2013, 01:36:54 pm
But how old is she?
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: ironbite on August 16, 2013, 02:55:10 pm
And is she single?
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on August 16, 2013, 08:48:05 pm
And where is she?
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: Her3tiK on August 16, 2013, 08:49:37 pm
Why don't you just ask for pics and a number while you're at it?
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: PosthumanHeresy on August 16, 2013, 09:27:19 pm
Why don't you just ask for pics and a number while you're at it?
Could we have pics and a number?  ;D
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: LeTipex on August 16, 2013, 10:36:55 pm
So, in order : 27, no, sydney, and no ^^.
Title: Re: The chain of intercourse/slut shaming
Post by: guizonde on August 20, 2013, 07:51:47 pm
truth be told, regarding sex ed, i either knew straight off the cuff more about the teacher in the classroom teaching the material, or did personnal research about it. oh, and my mom was a first gen MLF protester in the late seventies, so i grew up with the words "safe sex is easier to do than curing aids". not a scare tactic, just good sense. oh, and my doctor is a-ok with prescribing me with the routine battery of std-checks whenever i have to get a blood test. i'm clean, my girl is clean, so it's more a contraception problem than a protection problem between us. sexual deviancy aside, we both know our biology and keep that in mind whenever we get intimate. better safe than sorry, std's aside.

i've heard people call promiscuous girls sluts, and i don't enjoy it. for me a slut is a person who harms other people by their promiscuous behavior, be it diseases or emotionnal damage. your girl ain't the virgin mary, get over it. be good to her, she'll be good to you. talk it out if you have to, since apparently being a nice person is now a friggin' codeword for self-aggrandizing douchecanoes, but it oughta be basic human decency. *rages*

anywho, i guess y'all can see which camp i'm in, regardless of partner count. i'm happy where i am, with a loving girlfriend. i don't need more, or anyone to call either her or me "sluts" for having had more than one partner. (and besides. i'm a guitarist, and she's a biker. we've got other "significant others"  :P )