Author Topic: The Grover Oath  (Read 5856 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lt. Fred

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2994
  • Gender: Male
  • I see what you were trying to do there
Re: The Grover Oath
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2012, 09:55:07 pm »
... dismantling social programs ... reducing social mobility... increases ... violent crime

Where's your evidence? There should have been a steady increase in violent crime since the early 80s. But there's actually been a steady decline since about 1970, the height of the War on Poverty.

Violent crime does not correlate with economic decline or poverty. It does correlate with the prevalence of lead poisoning among dozens of societies. Basically, violent crime is caused by dodgy piping, poor building standards and bad toys.

Interesting. Here's this, this, or this which all find that economic inequality - and this is exactly what is occurring with economic decline and poverty growth - correlate positively with violent crime. But as you say, overall violent crime has been decreasing, although since '92 rather than the early '80s (see here, apparently from the Bureau of Justice Statistics). I can't immediately explain it. I'm prepared to find that I'm wrong on this point, although I don't buy the lead hypothesis.

Here's the scientist behind the lead theory

"What makes Nevin's work persuasive is that he has shown an identical, decades-long association between lead poisoning and crime rates in nine countries.

"It is stunning how strong the association is," Nevin said in an interview. "Sixty-five to ninety percent or more of the substantial variation in violent crime in all these countries was explained by lead."

...

"Through much of the 20th century, lead in U.S. paint and gasoline fumes poisoned toddlers as they put contaminated hands in their mouths. The consequences on crime, Nevin found, occurred when poisoning victims became adolescents. Nevin does not say that lead is the only factor behind crime, but he says it is the biggest factor."

Because the countries phased out lead at different points, they provide a rigorous test: In each instance, the violent crime rate tracks lead poisoning levels two decades earlier.

"It is startling how much mileage has been given to the theory that abortion in the early 1970s was responsible for the decline in crime" in the 1990s, Nevin said. "But they legalized abortion in Britain, and the violent crime in Britain soared in the 1990s. The difference is our gasoline lead levels peaked in the early '70s and started falling in the late '70s, and fell very sharply through the early 1980s and was virtually eliminated by 1986 or '87.

"In Britain and most of Europe, they did not have meaningful constraints [on leaded gasoline] until the mid-1980s and even early 1990s," he said. "This is the reason you are seeing the crime rate soar in Mexico and Latin America, but [it] has fallen in the United States."

Lead levels plummeted in New York in the early 1970s, driven by federal policies to eliminate lead from gasoline and local policies to reduce lead emissions from municipal incinerators. Between 1970 and 1974, the number of New York children heavily poisoned by lead fell by more than 80 percent, according to data from the New York City Department of Health.

Lead levels in New York have continued to fall. One analysis in the late 1990s found that children in New York had lower lead exposure than children in many other big U.S. cities, possibly because of a 1960 policy to replace old windows. That policy, meant to reduce deaths from falls, had an unforeseen benefit -- old windows are a source of lead poisoning, said Dave Jacobs of the National Center for Healthy Housing, an advocacy group that is publicizing Nevin's work. Nevin's research was not funded by the group.

The later drop in violent crime was dramatic. In 1990, 31 New Yorkers out of every 100,000 were murdered. In 2004, the rate was 7 per 100,000 -- lower than in most big cities. The lead theory also may explain why crime fell broadly across the United States in the 1990s, not just in New York.

The centerpiece of Nevin's research is an analysis of crime rates and lead poisoning levels across a century. The United States has had two spikes of lead poisoning: one at the turn of the 20th century, linked to lead in household paint, and one after World War II, when the use of leaded gasoline increased sharply. Both times, the violent crime rate went up and down in concert, with the violent crime peaks coming two decades after the lead poisoning peaks.

Other evidence has accumulated in recent years that lead is a neurotoxin that causes impulsivity and aggression, but these studies have also drawn little attention. In 2001, sociologist Paul B. Stretesky and criminologist Michael Lynch showed that U.S. counties with high lead levels had four times the murder rate of counties with low lead levels, after controlling for multiple environmental and socioeconomic factors.

In 2002, Herbert Needleman, a psychiatrist at the University of Pittsburgh, compared lead levels of 194 adolescents arrested in Pittsburgh with lead levels of 146 high school adolescents: The arrested youths had lead levels that were four times higher.

"Impulsivity means you ignore the consequences of what you do," said Needleman, one of the country's foremost experts on lead poisoning, explaining why Nevin's theory is plausible. Lead decreases the ability to tell yourself, "If I do this, I will go to jail."

Nevin's work has been published mainly in the peer-reviewed journal Environmental Research. Within the field of neurotoxicology, Nevin's findings are unsurprising, said Ellen Silbergeld, professor of environmental health sciences at Johns Hopkins University and the editor of Environmental Research.

"There is a strong literature on lead and sociopathic behavior among adolescents and young adults with a previous history of lead exposure," she said."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/07/AR2007070701073_pf.html

Here are some more academic articles on the alleged phenomenon:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935199940458

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935107000503
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR

Offline Cataclysm

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2458
Re: The Grover Oath
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2012, 04:10:15 pm »
Good news everybody!

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/03/08/440397/gop-rep-blasts-norquist-irresponsible/

Quote
Several Republican members of Congress have felt heat at their town halls for their fealty to Norquist’s pledge. “You work for North Dakota residents, not some guy from another state,” a constituent told Rep. Rick Berg (R-ND).

During an interview last week with Comedy Central’s The Daily Show, Norquist — who believes that President Obama should be impeached if he doesn’t agree to extend the Bush tax cuts again — said that he would not approve of a tax increase, even if the revenue went towards fighting a war, aiding victims of a natural disaster, or to combat “beard flu.” Last year, Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) got into a high-profile spat with Norquist regarding the latter’s insistence that cutting subsidies for ethanol would constitute a tax increase, calling Norquist’s position “ludicrous.”
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

Quote
Commenter Brendan Rizzo is an American (still living there) who really, really hates America. He used to make posts defending his country from anti-American attacks but got fed up with it all.

Offline Old Viking

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1454
  • Gender: Male
  • Occasionally peevish
Re: The Grover Oath
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2012, 04:21:45 pm »
Don't pirates fit into the crime equation some way?  It's confusing, because fewer pirates = less crime doesn't seem right.
I am an old man, and I've seen many problems, most of which never happened.

Offline Meshakhad

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2205
  • Gender: Male
  • The Night Is Dark And Full Of Terrors... Like Me
Re: The Grover Oath
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2012, 04:50:42 pm »
Grover Norquist wouldn't support a tax increase if it was needed to save his daughter's life.
G-d's Kingdom Is A Hate-Free Zone

Quote from: Reploid Productions
Pardon the interruption, good sir/lady; there are aspects of your behavior that I find quite unbecoming, and I must insist most strenuously that I be permitted to assist in resolving these behaviors through the repeated high-velocity cranial introduction of particularly firm building materials.

Quote from: Meshakhad
GIVE ME KNOWLEDGE OR I WILL PUT A CAP IN YO ASS!

Offline nickiknack

  • I Find Your Lack of Ponies... Disturbing
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 6037
  • Gender: Female
  • HAS A KINK FOR SPACE NAZIS
Re: The Grover Oath
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2012, 05:09:42 pm »
Grover Norquist wouldn't support a tax increase if it was needed to save his daughter's life.

And that won't happen anyway, she was born with a silver spoon in her mouth and possibly her ass (that's if she turns out like daddy).

Online ironbite

  • Overlord of all that is good in Iacon City
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 10686
  • Gender: Male
  • Stuck in the middle with you.
Re: The Grover Oath
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2012, 05:14:03 pm »
Nah what occupies her ass isn't a spoon.  More like a stick.

Ironbite-daddy made sure the doctors installed that at birth.