Author Topic: Rule talk  (Read 5067 times)

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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #135 on: July 06, 2019, 09:24:32 am »
Damn, Chaos you're obsessed. This site is not a nation state and it's rules are not formal laws. The same goes for every other forum, subreddit, Medium page, website and YouTube channel. They can interpret their own rules as they bloody well please and they owe nobody an explanation. You don't like it? Leave!

That is an aspect of rigid thinking that many online sceptics fall victim to when they try to be as rational as possible and almost fetishize logic. Logical structures (rigid rules in this case) and rhetoric become so important that they are blinded to underlying weaknesses and/or subjectivity in their premises. This causes people to miss their own prejudices and is the reason also well-meaning people participate in the alt-right/reactionary driven anti-SJW circlejerk of which Chaotic Paragon obviously is a big fan.

Offline niam2023

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #136 on: July 07, 2019, 06:54:00 pm »
And of course he is gonna pretend none of this discussion even happened and comment like two weeks from now hoping everybody forgot.
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #137 on: July 07, 2019, 08:08:00 pm »
There is also the Junior Mod rule that Chaos should review
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Offline niam2023

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #138 on: July 07, 2019, 09:29:53 pm »
Is that one a rule about trying to play Mod when you're not one?

Because if so he's definitely violating it.
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Offline Chaos Undivided

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #139 on: July 07, 2019, 09:34:57 pm »
Mods, you haven't answered my direct question yet. Where are you? TBH, this is kinda starting to tick me off.

I missed it, apologies.

That's fine. Apology accepted.

If you mean this one:

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Oh look, more unsubstantiated, unfalsifiable claims that I'm actually a ban-dodging former user. Direct question to the mods: why is this shit allowed? Like, if these people had any actual evidence, they'd have presented it by now.

then the reason 'this shit' is allowed is that the forum does have a pattern of ban dodgers who have been detected first via circumstantial evidence. It seems rather unreasonable to say nobody is allowed to suggest that someone might be a former user dodging a ban, when that has absolutely happened before.

Hmm... when you put it that way, it does make sense. Still, there are quite a few users (not all, but some) who are talking about me allegedly being a ban-dodger not like it's a possibility, but like it's a certainty. This despite the fact that they haven't even proved their circumstantial evidence objectively exists. For all I know, the alleged similarities could just be a matter of perception. And even if we are similar in the ways they say we are - we very well might be - there are other explanations than us secretly being the same person. Political positions? AOC and Ilhan Omar have some very similar ideas (wanting to abolish ICE, supporting single-payer healthcare, etc.). Writing style? Like I said before, there are entire lists of authors with similar writing styles. The example I pointed to was the late Anthony Bourdain writing similarly to Chuck Palahniuk, despite them being different in plenty of ways (not least of which is the stuff they wrote). And yet these people constantly harp on about how I'm a former user like there's no other explanation.

That really sums up a lot of my frustrations, I think. Those who most vocally disagree with me always seem to gravitate towards possibilities that reflect negatively on me. It doesn't matter what other possibilities there are, or how likely they are. They always go with the ones that would paint me in a bad light. And they never show me evidence to support their conclusions, so I can't defend myself from the accusations. They keep harping on and on and on about these things I've supposedly done, but they never show any examples of me actually doing what they say I've done. Do you know how frustrating it is to deal with people assuming bad things about me and slinging around allegations they won't back up? This isn't just people voicing their suspicions, it's borderline character assassination. And the only reason I added the qualifier "borderline" is because I don't know whether they actually believe what they're saying about me or just want to destroy my reputation. But that doesn't really matter, since it's a witch hunt either way.

Look, I can admit that I haven't always toed the line myself. There are things I said that were unwise and unkind. And maybe I could've responded better to being disrespected. But the shit I get is completely out of proportion to what I've done. Not my fault this guy lives in their heads rent-free.

Maybe there's some kind of compromise we could come up with? Or maybe I could find some way to get them to back off.

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I'd like to think you have reasons for things being the way they are I can at least understand. Really, I would. But the longer you maintain radio silence, the harder it is for me to believe that. Like I said, I'm willing to listen if you're willing to talk, and I think a conversation about the rules and their enforcement among the staff and users is necessary.

I disagree, I think my opinion that I don't think that conversation would be productive has been clearly stated, and I don't intend to answer requests to that effect. I believe this is what you are interpreting as 'radio silence'.

How will you know if you don't try? Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I think any conversation can be productive with the right participants.
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #140 on: July 07, 2019, 10:08:21 pm »
Quote
I'd like to think you have reasons for things being the way they are I can at least understand. Really, I would. But the longer you maintain radio silence, the harder it is for me to believe that. Like I said, I'm willing to listen if you're willing to talk, and I think a conversation about the rules and their enforcement among the staff and users is necessary.

I disagree, I think my opinion that I don't think that conversation would be productive has been clearly stated, and I don't intend to answer requests to that effect. I believe this is what you are interpreting as 'radio silence'.

How will you know if you don't try? Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I think any conversation can be productive with the right participants.

I couldn’t agree more; you’re clearly a wrong participant for an intellectually honest conversation to discover facts and craft a workable interpretation of events.
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Offline niam2023

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #141 on: July 07, 2019, 10:35:36 pm »
I think we should focus more on his actual misdeeds under his current name instead of fixating on a perceived common identity. He most definitely HAS made questionable, bad and malignant posts on here. Bear in mind that some of our membership also makes fun of Lady Checkmate for insisting everyone is a sockpuppet of one individual going after her.

So let's focus for now on the centrist concern troll before us instead of insisting he's Ultimate Paragon.
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Offline DukeTheCat

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #142 on: August 12, 2019, 10:32:23 pm »
This is all bullshit when considering how fucking disingenuous you are. Everyone knows you are someone who has been here before. Unless you confront that, it rings very hollow to accuse anyone of self-righteousness, hypocrisy or bad faith.

In fact, it's a fucking joke cracker. Which is why you kept getting laughed at.

No, I'm not. You have no evidence for that. And as I've said before, any claim that can be made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. You might as well say I'm a dog that somehow learned to type.

Direct question: how would you feel about somebody accusing you of being a child molester or a war criminal without any kind of evidence beyond personal opinion?

The real difference between now and the old days wasn't the rules being enforced, but rather the rules were enforced which made everything boring.

When I joined there were several posters who would be categorised as 'chew toys'. In fact there was so much chewing that chew toys used to chew on each other. I mean there was Mr Mannnn, Skyfire and a couple of others who I've forgotten and then there was the 'Moby Dick', the great white whale, the greatest interactive nutjob of them all Nautical999, who never got tired and was in equal measures slimy and insane, so much so that it was just fucking riveting. His appearance was the great bright flare on this forum...

Even if that's true, the fact remains quite a few former users have left the forums and not come back because they considered them toxic. I posted multiple testimonials to that effect on the previous page. Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that maybe being openly arrogant and hostile towards people with different opinions isn't helping your forum grow?

Blah blah blah.

How nice of you to further demonstrate your way of thinking that is the main target of my criticism. My arrogance towards you is precisely because I don't give a shit about you as a person and I'm only using you to discuss what is wrong with the positions you represent - or at least pretend to represent. It is also the result of a complete loss of respect and trust you have brought upon yourself. Attempting to manipulate the optics of the discussion with fake humility and moralization is part of the behavior pattern that has brought this upon you.

Yes, you can look at the form of what I said and present it as appealing to tradition - if you ingore the context of the claims that you made. This can be a dishonest rhetorical tactic or a genuinely naive, superficial way of interpreting logical concepts. You claim that the treatment you get is a reason for the forum's downfall when I am making the counter argument that it is just an aspect of the community that never prevented it from thriving in the past. Yes, we have become quite a circlejerk here compared to the past but in my opinion it is more a result of the community shrinking than a cause for it.

You are probably thinking about trying to point out that I have recently been as guilty of bad faith interpretation as those of which I am accusing you. The difference is that I am actually taking the full context of your history and expressed ideological tendencies and using that to logically infer your intentions, tactics and implied ideas. And no, there is no need for me to prove that you are Ultimately Anal if there is enough circumstantial evidence to infer that nor do I need to present this evidence if practically everyone else who is already aware of the same evidence has come to the same conclusion. This is not a competitive debate where your skills at rhetorical fencing can be more important than actual reality.

Well, at least you're honest about being an egotistical bully. But don't pretend your dislike of me is based on any kind of logic. No, it's based on your own prejudices and biases. I know this because 1. you wrote me off as a "pigheaded centrist" very early on and 2. you haven't presented any kind of evidence for your accusations beyond "we all know". You say your dislike of me is because you've pegged me as a ban-dodging, manipulative, arrogant prick, and it's not unlikely you actually believe it. But just because you say and believe something, doesn't make it true. Why don't you stop assuming you're always right and start trying to prove you're not just talking out of your ass?

And you haven't presented even circumstantial evidence for me to challenge, just your own opinions. Saying "everyone has come to the same conclusion" is a completely meaningless statement, since you yourself admitted that this board is a circlejerk. The fact that you, ironbite, Queen, Tol, dave, fluffy, and niam (and possibly some others I forgot) are all acting like dicks to me based on unfounded accusations and your own political extremism is not my fault. You want to disagree with me? Fine. Go ahead. I value freedom of thought, and freedom to express thought. What I'm not OK with is you treating me like I'm defective or a bad person for holding opinions you disagree with, accusing me of arguing in bad faith (or worse) without any kind of evidence, and constantly dogpiling me like I'm this football ref, among other things.

What the fuck did I do to deserve this? I've made mistakes, yeah, but that doesn't mean your harshness is warranted. You want to give me constructive criticism? No problem. I can handle that. But you're just being complete dicks to me based on harmless mistakes. Your responses were completely out of proportion. How did I hurt any of you? I didn't come here looking for fights, but fights keep finding me.

And what did I say that was so unreasonable? I am not Jacob Harrison. I haven't advocated absolute monarchy, theocratic government, or punishing gay people with chemical castration. I don't want to bring back having people hanged, drawn and quartered. And I haven't tried to justify the expulsions of the Spanish Jews or the California Genocide. And yet you guys keep talking like I'm somehow on par with him. That says a lot of unpleasant things about you. It says you're a bunch of closed-minded, judgmental, arrogant, hypocritical, and downright nasty douchebags who think backing up the claims you make with evidence is optional and lump everyone who doesn't agree with you hard enough into a group you think of as "the enemy". You're textbook religious fanatics, except your "religion" is warped progressivism. To think you call yourselves members of the skeptic community. What a fucking joke.

But you probably won't have to put up with me much longer. Unless the mods agree to have a serious conversation about the rules and their enforcement with me and the rest of the userbase, I'm going to leave this forum and not look back. Your forum can shrivel up and die like a fallen leaf for all I care.

Though before I go, I'd like to say one thing: I don't hate everyone else here. Hell, some of you I like. Ravy, Askold, Kanzen, dpareja, Sigma, and others come to mind (sorry in advance if I got any of your names wrong). While we're on the subject, I don't even hate Skybison, because he seemed to be at least trying to come to some kind of understanding with me. FWIW, I can at least respect him for that. We may not have always agreed, but that doesn't mean I think of you as enemies. And if I do end up leaving, it was nice knowing you guys, however briefly. Maybe we could be friends somewhere else? Just a thought.
Evidently, you have a lot of knowledge of what Jacob posted as if you were on this site while he was here. It is absurd that a new user would read 9 entire pages of his blogs and all the comments. And Jacob changed his views on homosexuals when he realized that 3 Medieval English kings Richard I, Edward II, and Richard II were bisexual.

Anyway, he thinks that it is cowardly that you are so offended by what strangers on a far left board say to you that you whined to the mods to censor their opinions. What did you expect, posting center left views on a far left forum. When Jacob was here, he knew what he was getting into and was not fazed by the insults he received because he knew that he had to do what is necessary to promote his English monarchist cause.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #143 on: August 18, 2019, 08:14:22 am »
And his thing for his cousin, that was real important!

Hi Jake, still batshit?