Author Topic: A Political Compass Examination  (Read 2515 times)

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Offline Captain Jack Harkness

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A Political Compass Examination
« on: April 10, 2012, 01:24:11 am »
So this talks about other candidates, but I want to focus on Obama for the OP

http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012

Quote
The Democratic incumbent has surrounded himself with conservative advisors and key figures — many from previous administrations, and an unprecedented number from the Trilateral Commission. He also appointed a former Monsanto executive as Senior Advisor to the FDA. He has extended Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, presided over a spiralling rich-poor gap and sacrificed further American jobs with recent free trade deals.Trade union rights have also eroded under his watch. He has expanded Bush defence spending, droned civilians, failed to close Guantanamo, supported the NDAA which effectively legalises martial law, allowed drilling and adopted a soft-touch position towards the banks that is to the right of European Conservative leaders. We list these because many of Obama’s detractors absurdly portray him as either a radical liberal or a socialist, while his apologists, equally absurdly, continue to view him as a well-intentioned progressive, tragically thwarted by overwhelming pressures. 2008's yes-we-can chanters, dazzled by pigment rather than policy detail, forgot to ask can what? Between 1998 and the last election, Obama amassed $37.6million from the financial services industry, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. While 2008 presidential candidate Obama appeared to champion universal health care, his first choice for Secretary of Health was a man who had spent years lobbying on behalf of the pharmaceutical industry against that very concept. Hey! You don't promise a successful pub, and then appoint the Salvation Army to run it. This time around, the honey-tongued President makes populist references to economic justice, while simultaneously appointing as his new Chief of Staff a former Citigroup executive concerned with hedge funds that bet on the housing market to collapse. Obama poses something of a challenge to The Political Compass, because he's a man of so few fixed principles.

So even though Obama's solidly right and authoritarian, that's not enough for the current GOP.  Compare this with his 2008 results based on his campaign then!

http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2008

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When examining the chart it's important to note that although most of the candidates seem quite different, in substance they occupy a relatively restricted area within the universal political spectrum. Democracies with a system of proportional representation give expression to a wider range of political views. While Cynthia McKinney and Ralph Nader are depicted on the extreme left in an American context, they would simply be mainstream social democrats within the wider political landscape of Europe. Similarly, Obama is popularly perceived as a leftist in the United States while elsewhere in the west his record is that of a moderate conservative. For example, in the case of the death penalty he is not an uncompromising abolitionist, while mainstream conservatives in all other western democracies are deeply opposed to capital punishment. The Democratic party's presidential candidate also reneged on his commitment to oppose the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. He sided with the ultra conservative bloc in the Supreme Court against the Washington DC handgun ban and for capital punishment in child rape cases. He supports President Bush's faith-based initiatives and is reported in Fortune to have said that NAFTA isn't so bad. Despite all this, some angry emailers tell us that Obama is a dangerous socialist who belongs on the extreme left of our chart. In an apparently close race, genuine leftists McKinney and Nader may attract sufficient votes from Obama to deliver McCain to the Oval Office.

Yeah.  I think this is one hell of an interesting analysis.
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Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

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Re: A Political Compass Examination
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2012, 01:42:22 am »
Bravo! It's strange that if you, say, call Obama out on his clearly authoritarian politics, people quickly accuse you of being a Glenn Beck fan. Yes, I have actually experienced that.

Offline Cataclysm

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Re: A Political Compass Examination
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2012, 01:45:10 am »
Well Glenn Beck is most famous for comparing Obama to the Nazis and Soviets. It might be ingrained in some people's brains.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

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Commenter Brendan Rizzo is an American (still living there) who really, really hates America. He used to make posts defending his country from anti-American attacks but got fed up with it all.

Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

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Re: A Political Compass Examination
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2012, 01:50:35 am »
Quote
As outrageous as it may appear, civil libertarians and human rights supporters would have actually fared better under a Republican administration. Had a Bush or McCain presidency continued Guantanamo and introduced the NDAA, the Democratic Party would have howled from the rooftops. Under a Democratic administration, these far-reaching developments have received scant opposition and a disgraceful absence of mainstream media coverage.

Also, I'm glad the article pointed this out as I've been saying this too.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG7LjVCj50Y" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG7LjVCj50Y</a>

Offline myusername

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Re: A Political Compass Examination
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2012, 04:36:07 am »
I knew Barack was right-wing, but I didn't realise he was quite that right-wing.

QueenofHearts

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Re: A Political Compass Examination
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2012, 04:45:35 am »
I knew Barack was right-wing, but I didn't realise he was quite that right-wing.

I figured he was. He was center right when campaigning in 2008 and since becoming president just abandoned his whole campaign rhetoric and ran to the right on just about every issue (even the pinnacle of his presidency was proposed by Bob Dole in '94, so that should tell you today's "socialist" was yesteryear's conservative).

The part that bothers me even more is that conservatives have essentially won the debate about Obama being a socialist. If that's true, it makes me feel that the next democratic president (in 2016 or 2020, I don't see a 2 term republican president if they're that far to the right) will be to the right of Obama. Presidential scholar's like Stephen Skowronek would argue otherwise (precisely that a failed conservative president would set the groundwork for a great liberal era), but I don't think he could have seen the full effects of a conservative media and corporate plutocracy.

Offline myusername

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Re: A Political Compass Examination
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2012, 05:01:12 am »
TBF, I'm not American, probably why, as I don't know everything that goes on across the pond.

Quote from: QueenofHearts
Presidential scholar's like Stephen Skowronek would argue otherwise (precisely that a failed conservative president would set the groundwork for a great liberal era), but I don't think he could have seen the full effects of a conservative media and corporate plutocracy.

Agreed, I have the same concern about the UK as well, though our candidates aren't as right wing as yours, Lab and Con are both different flavours of neoliberal.
Besides, didn't happen after Dubya, and I don't think there's a better definition of "Failed Conservative President" is there? I mean, Iraq on its own is a pretty hefty definition of failure.

Offline N. De Plume

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Re: A Political Compass Examination
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2012, 07:41:06 am »
Part of the problem is that there are so many head-in-the-sand-and/or-up-their-asses voters that couldn’t recognize a failed president if one invited themselves over for dinner, peed on the ham, and then announced that the family they should be grateful for such a generous tax rebate. In other words, there are not nearly enough people that realize what is going on and can make this predicted shift to the other side of the spectrum. It seems to me that Mr. Skowronek fell into the classic blunder of underestimating human stupidity.
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Offline nickiknack

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Re: A Political Compass Examination
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2012, 11:58:17 pm »
Bravo! It's strange that if you, say, call Obama out on his clearly authoritarian politics, people quickly accuse you of being a Glenn Beck fan. Yes, I have actually experienced that.
I've been called a Paultard  and a "tin foil hatter" for pointing that out, while when I point out the crazy crap that Paul says, I'm called an Obamabot...

Quote
Since FDR, the mainstream American "Left" has been much more concerned with the social rather than the economic agenda. Identity politics; issues like peace, immigration, gay and women's rights, prayers in school have been of greater importance than matters like a minimum living wage . It's therefore understandable that many of them speak warmly about the most right wing of all the Republican contenders, Ron Paul. Paul is an extraordinary figure in this most extraordinary election. At 76, the sprightly, softly-spoken Congressman commands enormous youth enthusiasm and support across the spectrum - from Ralph Nader to the John Birch Society. Nader, who has spent decades campaigning for greater regulation of corporations, has somehow put his lot in with the most deregulatory of all the candidates. Many liberals appreciate Paul for his promise to bring the troops home, slash the defence budget and, among other things, his principled opposition to the NDAA. The harsh social Darwinism of Paul's core beliefs, however, appear to be of relatively little importance to such progressives

This is so sad , because it's true, and I've seen way too many of these types of "progressives". I've said those so-called "progressives" aren't real progressives, if they're willing to throw those who are low-income under the bus, for the same things that real progressives are for w/o the social darwinism bs.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 12:00:24 am by nickiknack »

Offline VirtualStranger

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The Political Compass updates for 2012 election
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2012, 10:11:31 pm »
...And the result is that the US is looking more and more like a right-wing one-party state with every passing day.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012




Quote
This is a US election that defies logic and brings the nation closer towards a one-party state, masquerading as a two-party state.

The Democratic incumbent has surrounded himself with conservative advisors and key figures — many from previous administrations, and an unprecedented number from the Trilateral Commission. He also appointed a former Monsanto executive as Senior Advisor to the FDA. He has extended Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, presided over a spiralling rich-poor gap and sacrificed further American jobs with recent free trade deals.Trade union rights have also eroded under his watch. He has expanded Bush defence spending, droned civilians, failed to close Guantanamo, supported the NDAA which effectively legalises martial law, allowed drilling and adopted a soft-touch position towards the banks that is to the right of European Conservative leaders. We list these because many of Obama’s detractors absurdly portray him as either a radical liberal or a socialist, while his apologists, equally absurdly, continue to view him as a well-intentioned progressive, tragically thwarted by overwhelming pressures. 2008's yes-we-can chanters, dazzled by pigment rather than policy detail, forgot to ask can what? Between 1998 and the last election, Obama amassed $37.6million from the financial services industry, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. While 2008 presidential candidate Obama appeared to champion universal health care, his first choice for Secretary of Health was a man who had spent years lobbying on behalf of the pharmaceutical industry against that very concept. Hey! You don't promise a successful pub, and then appoint the Salvation Army to run it. This time around, the honey-tongued President makes populist references to economic justice, while simultaneously appointing as his new Chief of Staff a former Citigroup executive concerned with hedge funds that bet on the housing market to collapse. Obama poses something of a challenge to The Political Compass, because he's a man of so few fixed principles.

As outrageous as it may appear, civil libertarians and human rights supporters would have actually fared better under a Republican administration. Had a Bush or McCain presidency continued Guantanamo and introduced the NDAA, the Democratic Party would have howled from the rooftops. Under a Democratic administration, these far-reaching developments have received scant opposition and a disgraceful absence of mainstream media coverage.

Democratic and, especially, some Republican candidates, will benefit massively from new legislation that permits them to receive unlimited and unaccountable funding. This means a significant shift of political power to the very moneyed interests that earlier elections tried to contain. Super PACs will inevitably reshape the system and undermine democracy. It would be naïve to suppose that a President Gingrich would feel no obligations towards his generous backer, Sheldon Adelson, one of the country’s most influential men. Or a President Santorum towards billionaire mutual fund tycoon, Foster Freiss. (Santorum emerges as the most authoritarian candidate, not the least for his extreme stand against abortion and condom sales.) Or a President Paul, whose largest single donor, billionaire Peter Thiel, founded a controversial defence company contracting to the CIA and the FBI. Last year it was caught operating an illegal spy ring targeting opponents of the US Chamber of Commerce. In our opinion, Romney, despite his consistent contempt for the impoverished, is correctly described as the weather vane candidate. He shares another similarity with Obama. His corporate-friendly health care plan for Massachusetts was strikingly similar to the President's "compromise" package. The emergence of the Tea Party enables an increasingly extreme GOP to present itself as middle-of-the road — between an ultra right movement with "some good ideas that might go a bit too far" and, on the other side, a dangerous "socialist" president.

Since FDR, the mainstream American "Left" has been much more concerned with the social rather than the economic agenda. Identity politics; issues like peace, immigration, gay and women's rights, prayers in school have been of greater importance than matters like a minimum living wage . It's therefore understandable that many of them speak warmly about the most right wing of all the Republican contenders, Ron Paul. Paul is an extraordinary figure in this most extraordinary election. At 76, the sprightly, softly-spoken Congressman commands enormous youth enthusiasm and support across the spectrum - from Ralph Nader to the John Birch Society. Nader, who has spent decades campaigning for greater regulation of corporations, has somehow put his lot in with the most deregulatory of all the candidates. Many liberals appreciate Paul for his promise to bring the troops home, slash the defence budget and, among other things, his principled opposition to the NDAA. The harsh social Darwinism of Paul's core beliefs, however, appear to be of relatively little importance to such progressives. Similarly. his opposition to abortion and his support for creationism, which have endeared him to the Christian Coalition. Paul, the only conviction politician among them, no doubt enjoys a wider support base than the primary results suggest As the front-running three continue to bruise each other shadow boxing, he might yet emerge as the last man standing at the Convention. As president, Paul could be expected to reach widely beyond the Republicans in his appointments, further blurring party distinctions. While the liberal aspects of Paul’s social policies are anathema to neo-cons, he remains the Republicans' best hope of achieving the presidency. Under a second term of Obama, however, the GOP can remain confident that it will continue to frame the debates.

Offline Cataclysm

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Re: The Political Compass updates for 2012 election
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2012, 10:14:43 pm »
I think we already have a thread on this... I'm too lazy to dig it up.

But I'm wondering how they managed to calculate it. They should show us the answers the candidates "chose" on the tests.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

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Commenter Brendan Rizzo is an American (still living there) who really, really hates America. He used to make posts defending his country from anti-American attacks but got fed up with it all.

Offline kefkaownsall

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Re: The Political Compass updates for 2012 election
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2012, 10:16:24 pm »
This is not a very good test IMO (one of the questions is bottled water)

Offline Cataclysm

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Re: The Political Compass updates for 2012 election
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2012, 10:24:26 pm »
I wana legalize marijauna

And I wana jail gay people.

Imma centrist.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

Quote
Commenter Brendan Rizzo is an American (still living there) who really, really hates America. He used to make posts defending his country from anti-American attacks but got fed up with it all.

Offline nickiknack

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Re: The Political Compass updates for 2012 election
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2012, 10:28:16 pm »
Yeah, there is already a thread. But your right, our country is basicly right wing in nature, really fucking sad, but remember Obama is still a "socialist" and a "marxist". lol

Offline VirtualStranger

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Re: The Political Compass updates for 2012 election
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2012, 10:38:04 pm »
I think we already have a thread on this...

Where?