Author Topic: New film pisses off Christians  (Read 5106 times)

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Offline Her3tiK

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New film pisses off Christians
« on: June 29, 2012, 01:03:51 pm »
...by saying Mary was raped by a Roman soldier and that's how Jesus was conceived.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/27/jesus-of-nazareth-film-angers-christian_n_1630980.html (emphasis added)
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The most controversial aspects of the book and future film include a portrayal of Jesus as the child of a Roman soldier who raped Mary, a depiction that is contrary to the profession of faith by Christians that Mary was a virgin. The story also discounts the common biblical teachings of Jesus performing miracles, the resurrection and of Jesus' divinity.

As William Doehring explains in the Examiner, the film is based on the work of prominent Biblical theologians such as Rudolf Bultman and Raymond Brown, and the members of the Jesus Seminar, a group of biblical scholars whose research focuses on constructing an accurate portrait of the historical Jesus, one who was more ethicist and radical prophet than Son of God.
I love how it's based on the work of theologians, but still somehow thought to be atheists making shit up (as though that's not how we got the bible already). I mean really, all you need to do to make this "biblically accurate" is replace "Roman soldier" with "God." It's still rape, no matter who did it.
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Offline JohnE

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Re: New film pisses off Christians
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2012, 01:23:00 pm »
Atheists often get the blame for stuff Christians have done, like taking mandatory prayer out of schools.

Offline Cataclysm

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Re: New film pisses off Christians
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2012, 01:55:12 pm »
I mean really, all you need to do to make this "biblically accurate" is replace "Roman soldier" with "God." It's still rape, no matter who did it.

Not really, since Mary Consented. Although she was like 14, but then every girl back then was raped.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

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Offline Smurfette Principle

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Re: New film pisses off Christians
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2012, 01:56:45 pm »
I mean really, all you need to do to make this "biblically accurate" is replace "Roman soldier" with "God." It's still rape, no matter who did it.

Not really, since Mary Consented. Although she was like 14, but then every girl back then was raped.

Mary consented, sure, but it would be considered statutory rape because of her age. Also, every girl? Really?

Offline Cataclysm

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Re: New film pisses off Christians
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2012, 01:57:47 pm »
Maybe not every girl, but most of them would have been under 18 when they had sex, often to a much older man.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

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Offline Star Cluster

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Re: New film pisses off Christians
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2012, 09:32:45 am »
I can certainly understand why they're so upset.  After all, the virgin birth is one of the cornerstones of the Christian faith.  Never mind that it really makes no sense a theological standpoint and that it causes several contradictions with "prophecy", other scriptures, and history, Mary just has to be a virgin to show that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost.

Now for someone to come along with the idea that Mary was raped and that Jesus was the illegitimate offspring of (gasp) a Roman soldier, is not going to be an easy pill for them to swallow.  Just look at history.  Anytime anything has come along that goes against what they think the Bible tells them, it takes a long time for that to be accepted, and then only after years and years of irrefutable proof.  And even then, there are some that still won't accept it (can you say Flat Earth Society, for example?)

And just what "proof" are these biblical experts that extend this notion going to offer.  There's not one shred of verifiable evidence that Jesus ever existed to begin with.  How are they going to verifiiably show who the baby-daddy was?

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Offline N. De Plume

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Re: New film pisses off Christians
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2012, 10:55:08 am »
Sounds like Life of Brian. “At first” anyway.

I mean really, all you need to do to make this "biblically accurate" is replace "Roman soldier" with "God." It's still rape, no matter who did it.

Not really, since Mary Consented. Although she was like 14, but then every girl back then was raped.

Mary consented, sure, but it would be considered statutory rape because of her age.

Depends on what the statutes were with regards to age of consent, doesn’t it?
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Offline ironbite

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Re: New film pisses off Christians
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2012, 11:23:41 am »
Sounds like Life of Brian. “At first” anyway.

I mean really, all you need to do to make this "biblically accurate" is replace "Roman soldier" with "God." It's still rape, no matter who did it.

Not really, since Mary Consented. Although she was like 14, but then every girl back then was raped.

Mary consented, sure, but it would be considered statutory rape because of her age.

Depends on what the statutes were with regards to age of consent, doesn’t it?

Bout to say.  Age of consent back in those days was very different from what it is now.

Ironbite-also...every girl?  Seriously?

Offline kefkaownsall

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Re: New film pisses off Christians
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2012, 11:42:48 am »
I actually did a video on this subject of Roman Weddings and really child brides were the norm. 

Offline TheL

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Re: New film pisses off Christians
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2012, 11:59:58 am »
There were no age of consent laws in ancient times.  However, this doesn't necessarily mean that people had sex with child brides, either.  Having sex with a prepubescent child has been a taboo in most human cultures for quite a long time.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: New film pisses off Christians
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2012, 12:12:28 pm »
Also 14 at the time was considered an appropriate age for marriage anyways.

Ironbite-still not seeing the "every girl was raped" thing though.

Offline davedan

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Re: New film pisses off Christians
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2012, 07:47:30 pm »
I can certainly understand why they're so upset.  After all, the virgin birth is one of the cornerstones of the Christian faith.  Never mind that it really makes no sense a theological standpoint and that it causes several contradictions with "prophecy", other scriptures, and history, Mary just has to be a virgin to show that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost.

Now for someone to come along with the idea that Mary was raped and that Jesus was the illegitimate offspring of (gasp) a Roman soldier, is not going to be an easy pill for them to swallow.  Just look at history.  Anytime anything has come along that goes against what they think the Bible tells them, it takes a long time for that to be accepted, and then only after years and years of irrefutable proof.  And even then, there are some that still won't accept it (can you say Flat Earth Society, for example?)

And just what "proof" are these biblical experts that extend this notion going to offer.  There's not one shred of verifiable evidence that Jesus ever existed to begin with.  How are they going to verifiiably show who the baby-daddy was?


This. How exactly are they going to propound that sort of proof? Presumably from some sort of extrapolation that they didn't know the father. Wouldn't Joseph being his father be slightly more explicable?

Besides which Life of Brian was much more offensive. (Given the similarity - Naughtius Maximus- I'm wondering whether that's where the idea came from)

Offline Sylvana

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Re: New film pisses off Christians
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2012, 06:10:23 am »
Personally, I came to the conclusion that the most logical reason behind the conception was that Mary was raped by an older male family member. Given how rape was seen back then, especially with the whole marrying your rapist laws, and how rape victims are often shamed into submission to deny the rape by their rapist it makes sense to me. Even today young girls are most likely to be raped by an uncle of other older male family member. Similarly if the rapist is a family member they would have far more control over Mary to force her to lie about the origin of her pregnancy.

 I don't think the roman soldier theory is as likely, however, given the militaristic hold of Israel by the Romans at the time it wouldn't have been unreasonable for a roman soldier to abuse his power and forcibly rape Mary. This is especially possible given the general contempt the Romans had for the local people in occupied Israel. However, I stand more by my family member rape theory based on current rape statistics.

Although I can understand the Christians getting upset. The virgin conception of Mary is a corner stone of the religion and implies that Mary was pure when she conceived, as well as implying the divine nature of Jesus. If he was the child of rape it makes Jesus nothing but a bastard child with nothing remarkable about him at all. While that would fit with the Islamic interpretation, where Jesus is a mildly important prophet and not divine, it conflicts with Christianity where Jesus is the most important figure.

To me the stories in the bible feel more like a miss mash of independent stories. I don't believe some guy named Jesus did all that, however I wouldn't be surprised if they are the poorly remembered and factually incomplete memories of various people about various other figures all tacking on the label of Jesus. I find that even the most absurd stories have a nugget of truth in them, even if only at the conceptual level.

Offline TheL

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Re: New film pisses off Christians
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2012, 09:29:55 pm »
The funny part is, most early forms of Christianity probably wouldn't have a problem with this.  The Messiah was originally supposed to be a man so great that God adopted him as his son.  The idea of Jesus being God's natural-born son came later, as we can see from the Gospels.  From oldest to most recent:

Mark--Nothing mentioned before Jesus's baptism.  It is implied, but not stated, that Jesus becomes God's son at the moment of his baptism.
Matthew&Luke--Two slightly-contradictory birth stories.  It is implied that Jesus was conceived by God, and was thus God's son from the moment of birth.
John--"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God," and, long story short, this aspect of God became human in the form of Jesus.  Thus, Jesus was God's son from the beginning of time; he just took a long-ass time to become human.
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Re: New film pisses off Christians
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2012, 03:08:30 pm »
John--"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,"
It would seem that John has not yet heard about the bird.

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