Author Topic: So when does gender matter?  (Read 5634 times)

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Distind

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So when does gender matter?
« on: October 09, 2012, 01:46:45 pm »
I figured I'd kick a land mine that's been annoying me for a while. I'm a fan of treating people more or less equally. The only real differences being in my opinion of them as a person, and rarely my interest in them on a deeper level.

What I've gathered from a few conversations around here it's assumed that there should be different treatment of people based on their 'gender' "When it matters". Which has left me at a bit of a loss, as  I have little idea of what these times would be. I'm not trying to be obtuse here, I honestly don't see it. But I did grow up around farm girls who could(and did on occasion) beat me into the dirt, so I may very well have simply missed something.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 04:05:55 pm by Distind »

Offline SpaceProg

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Re: So when does sex matter?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2012, 02:08:38 pm »
Sex matters not one iota to me in a romantic relationship.  Though I'm probably not like most.

Offline Dan

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Re: So when does sex matter?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2012, 03:51:08 pm »
In most relationships it seems to matter most when you do it with someone else.

Offline Veras

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Re: So when does sex matter?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2012, 03:59:59 pm »
Sex matters not one iota to me in a romantic relationship.  Though I'm probably not like most.

In most relationships it seems to matter most when you do it with someone else.

Maybe I misunderstood the question.  Wasn't the op asking why people should be treated differently based on whether they are male or female?
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Distind

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Re: So when does sex matter?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2012, 04:05:43 pm »
Yeah, I'm altering the title of it now.

Offline rookie

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Re: So when does gender matter?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2012, 04:21:20 pm »
I've always been of the opinion that gender doesn't matter much in most things that really matter. If a person is a good and quasi decent person, they are a good and quasi decent person. If they want to correct me on which third person pronoun to use, then fine. I'll refer to them as they wish.

The thing about gender stereotypes, any kind of stereotypes really, is they are so transparently stupid. Some chicks like sports, some guys like shopping, some black people don't like fried chicken, some Irish people don't drink, etc.
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Offline Veras

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Re: So when does gender matter?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2012, 05:00:58 pm »
In the aggregate, there are real differences between men and women; and you can argue about how much it has to do with cultural expectations versus how much it has to do with biology (I don't really care).  But ultimately, people should be treated as individuals and not part of an aggregate.  Basically, gender doesn't matter to me so much as a person's expectation of how they should be treated.
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Offline Old Viking

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Re: So when does gender matter?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2012, 05:46:05 pm »
Gender matters when you're choosing a restroom.
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Offline SpaceProg

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Re: So when does gender matter?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2012, 06:16:57 pm »
Whoops.  Sorry for my misunderstanding.  I was in a hurry. 

Offline Morgenleoht

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Re: So when does gender matter?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2012, 10:55:58 pm »
Gender matters when you're choosing a restroom.

It also matters during that time of month.
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Offline Cataclysm

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Re: So when does gender matter?
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2012, 12:53:21 am »
Gender matters when you're choosing a restroom.

It shouldn't though.
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Offline Søren

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Re: So when does gender matter?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2012, 05:51:45 am »
I'm quite weirded out by the whole restroom thing. Too confusing, but I cant really give a good opinion on it since I'm cis

But then, I've been told that if I was trans, I probably wouldnt give a shit because I am just that lazy
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Distind

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Re: So when does gender matter?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2012, 06:31:50 am »
I'm quite weirded out by the whole restroom thing. Too confusing, but I cant really give a good opinion on it since I'm cis

But then, I've been told that if I was trans, I probably wouldnt give a shit because I am just that lazy
It's something that goes deeper than most people who say:
It shouldn't though.
Seem to think about it.

If anyone's been watching the discussions between smurfete and I the last few weeks you might have noticed the 'Women are supposed to be afriad and subservient to men' business. It's something that I can see the expectation of, but I'm not a fan of myself. Which comes into play in restroom choices. At least mutli-occupancy ones. Short of being asleep there are few times where you're more vunerable than in the restroom, tack on to that the the mindset above and you have a female population which typically isn't terribly comfortable sharing a bathroom with men. Beyond that little point it also explains why there's often so much resistance to transexuals using their prefered bathroom, occasionally from the person who wants to use them.

I'd love to start working on explaining how men aren't here to eat/rape women angle, but until that's dealt with sex segregated bathrooms probably aren't going anywhere. At least ones with more than one person in them.

Offline Sylvana

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Re: So when does gender matter?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2012, 06:49:27 am »
As a trans person and hence someone who has experienced both male and female toilets, I would like to say that I would never want the toilets to ever not be separated by gender. Women's toilets are just cleaner and nicer, I would hate for them to become even half the bio-hazard that men's toilets were like. (this is not to say that women's toilets are clean, its just they are not terrifyingly disgusting like the men's ones are.)

As for when gender or sex matters, I don't think there is a single good answer. A persons gender is based on their own sense of self, and how they express that gender is important to them, even when it is not important to others. A simplistic example can be seen as a woman who chooses only to wear dresses because to her expressing her femininity like that is important to her, even though now days women can and do wear anything.

Unfortunately when things like being trans is thrown into the mix things quickly become complicated. As stated before the personal expression of ones gender is important to the person. However, feminists tend to dislike trans-women because when trans-women express their gender the feminists feel they are re-enforcing gender stereotypes. The gender equality argument is all good and well, and it sounds good to say things like gender roles and stereotypes are meaningless and shouldn't matter, but reality is far more nuanced. There are people who want to do those gender stereotypical things, like how there are women who want to be stay at home housewives even now in the era of women's liberation. They are not brainwashed or being coerced, they are choosing to act like that because it is what they want and important to them.

Offline Cataclysm

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Re: So when does gender matter?
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2012, 10:12:13 am »
I'm quite weirded out by the whole restroom thing. Too confusing, but I cant really give a good opinion on it since I'm cis

But then, I've been told that if I was trans, I probably wouldnt give a shit because I am just that lazy
It's something that goes deeper than most people who say:
It shouldn't though.
Seem to think about it.
I'd love to start working on explaining how men aren't here to eat/rape women angle, but until that's dealt with sex segregated bathrooms probably aren't going anywhere. At least ones with more than one person in them.

Join the MRM, they have "men aren't rapist" tourettes.

As a trans person and hence someone who has experienced both male and female toilets, I would like to say that I would never want the toilets to ever not be separated by gender. Women's toilets are just cleaner and nicer, I would hate for them to become even half the bio-hazard that men's toilets were like. (this is not to say that women's toilets are clean, its just they are not terrifyingly disgusting like the men's ones are.)


You're being facetious, right?

However, stupid feminists tend to dislike trans-women because when trans-women express their gender the feminists feel they are re-enforcing gender stereotypes. The gender equality argument is all good and well, and it sounds good to say things like gender roles and stereotypes are meaningless and shouldn't matter, but reality is far more nuanced.

Fix'd for you. Not all feminist are transphobic, and it isn't always due to their feminism. Those feminists probably have a problem with the SAHM and housewives. Don't generalize.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

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