Author Topic: The Greatest Wars (Or Battles) the Ameri-Centric World has never heard of.  (Read 11563 times)

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Offline Old Viking

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Re: The Greatest Wars (Or Battles) the Ameri-Centric World has never heard of.
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2012, 04:20:57 pm »
The War of the Roses.  Introduced horticulture to England.
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Re: The Greatest Wars (Or Battles) the Ameri-Centric World has never heard of.
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2012, 04:38:09 pm »
The War of the Roses.  Introduced horticulture to England.

I see what you did there.
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Offline Atheissimo

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Re: The Greatest Wars (Or Battles) the Ameri-Centric World has never heard of.
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2012, 06:49:52 pm »
From an English point of view, the English Civil War. Played a big part in the formation of what would become the basis of lots of world governments and legal systems, including the US.

Also, the Great Emu War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War) of Australia.

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Offline Meshakhad

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Re: The Greatest Wars (Or Battles) the Ameri-Centric World has never heard of.
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2012, 10:43:46 pm »
Actually, while living in England, my history class paid scant attention to the Thirty Years War, mostly because England pretty much stayed out, and it would have gotten in the way of the giant English Civil War unit we did.

More amusingly, we also kinda skimmed over the American Revolution.
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: The Greatest Wars (Or Battles) the Ameri-Centric World has never heard of.
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2012, 11:12:42 pm »
More amusingly, we also kinda skimmed over the American Revolution.

I'm actually curious about what England tends to think of that.  What their side of the story is.
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Offline armandtanzarian

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Re: The Greatest Wars (Or Battles) the Ameri-Centric World has never heard of.
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2012, 12:11:15 pm »
China had some awesome war stories to go along with its long-ass history. For instance, for all the talk about how Qin Shih Huang Di unified China 2200 years ago, there is no mention of the fact that, a few hundred years later, the Kingdom shattered into warring states for a further few hundred years. Most of classical Chinese culture, from the language and idioms we use to quite a bit of the post-Confusion lessons actually date from here (The Art of War, logically, came from this period, as did many of the best attempts to chronicle and secure earliest Chinese history).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_of_the_Three_Kingdoms

The histories at the time were full of utter bias as you'd expect. Infused in Confucian thinking is the idea that a monarch can actually be removed if he failed to take care of his people. That's where you get the idea of Dynasties, and usually the last king was portrayed as such an ass the peasants were justified in taking him out. For instance:

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In his later years, Di Xin was given over to drinking, women, sex and a lack of morals, preferring these to the proper governance of the country, and ignored almost all affairs of state. According to Sima Qian, he even hosted festive orgies where many people engage in sex at the same time with his concubines and created songs with crude (erotic) lyrics and poor rhythm. In legends, he is depicted as having come under the influence of his wicked wife Daji, and committing all manner of evil and cruel deeds with her. In fictionalizations, including the novel Fengshen Yanyi, she was said to be possessed by a malevolent fox spirit.
One of the most famous forms of entertainment Zhou enjoyed was the "Wine Pool and Meat Forest" (酒池肉林). A large pool, big enough for several canoes, was constructed on the Palace grounds, with inner linings of polished oval shaped stones from the sea shores. This allowed for the entire pool to be filled with alcohol. A small island was constructed in the middle of the pool, where trees were planted, which had branches made of roasted meat skewers hanging over the pool. This allowed Zhou and his friends and concubines to drift on canoes in the pool. When they thirst, they reached down into the pool with their hands and drank the wine. When they hungered, they reached up with their hands to eat the roasted meat. This was considered one of the most famous examples of decadence and corruption of a ruler in Chinese history.
In order to please Daji, he created the "Cannon Burning Punishment" (炮烙之刑). One large hollow bronze cylinder was stuffed with burning charcoal and allowed to burn until red-hot, then prisoners were made to literally hug the cylinder, which resulted in a painful and unsightly death.[citation needed]
Zhou and Daji were known to get highly aroused after watching such victims. Victims ranged from civilians and prisoners to high government officials, including Mei Bo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di_Xin

Offline Meshakhad

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Re: The Greatest Wars (Or Battles) the Ameri-Centric World has never heard of.
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2012, 01:03:31 pm »
More amusingly, we also kinda skimmed over the American Revolution.

I'm actually curious about what England tends to think of that.  What their side of the story is.

My impression was that they try not to think about it.
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Offline Atheissimo

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Re: The Greatest Wars (Or Battles) the Ameri-Centric World has never heard of.
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2012, 03:43:28 pm »
More amusingly, we also kinda skimmed over the American Revolution.

I'm actually curious about what England tends to think of that.  What their side of the story is.

My impression was that they try not to think about it.

Unfortunately, though the revolution is obviously important in American history and world history since then, it is not really considered significant enough in British history to warrant class time outside specific study of colonialism. Just another transfer of colonial power at a time when they were being traded about like football cards.

Remember, they've got to get from 96CE to the end of the Cold War just to get a good impression of British History, never mind the stuff they do about other cultures like the Greeks, Romans, Vikings and Egyptians. The Industrial Revolution, scramble for Empire, the First World War and the Second World War all get almost whole years devoted to them.

I get the impression from talking to Americans that the revolution is another of the world's great one sided rivalries, like Germany vs Holland. They tend to expect it to be thought of as a great national shame spoken of in hushed tones or an instant beserk button for any Englishman. When most Brits are only vaguely aware of it, and even then only in the context of another plot by the dastardly French before we licked them at Waterloo.

If you're looking for an English perspective though, it's seen as a sort of double edged sword. On the one hand, it is seen as a great stepping stone towards democracy building on the British tradition of individual rights (debatable, I know). On the other hand it's often thought that the true motives of the founding fathers were based on tax evasion to increase their personal wealth rather than freedom. We also don't get why you all hate King George so much, who was relatively benign for a European monarch. We've had Cromwell and Henry VIII, so it's hard to paint him as the tyrant you guys do.

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Offline wyvern999

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Re: The Greatest Wars (Or Battles) the Ameri-Centric World has never heard of.
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2012, 04:56:41 pm »
More amusingly, we also kinda skimmed over the American Revolution.

I'm actually curious about what England tends to think of that.  What their side of the story is.

My impression was that they try not to think about it.

No. It's just not that important, The UK has a 2000+ year history. From the Roman invasion to the present day. How do you decide which parts of it are more important than others. At some point we have been allied to or at war against most of the countries on this planet. We have built and lost the largest empire ever to exist. We have spread our language, culture, and form of governance around the globe, We have fought every day of not one but two wars and was on the winning side both times. We have been a major power for centuries. Not too shabby for a small island off the west coast of western europe.

From this perspective the loss of 13 American colonies was a minor inconvenience. It barely phased us. We still had Canada and the sugar islands of the Caribbean which in cash terms were worth more at that time and we discovered Australia and added that to our ever expanding empire. We had bigger fish to fry.

Offline myusername

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Re: The Greatest Wars (Or Battles) the Ameri-Centric World has never heard of.
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2012, 05:06:42 pm »
As a Brit I don't think I did the American Revolution either, I did a lot of Hitler/WWII, the Industrial Revolution, the Slave Trade, WWI, oh fucking hell, my memory of this stuff is pretty bad...so if I did do it I don't remember anything about it except the bit where you chucked our fine English tea in the sea (aren't Americans aware that that makes it taste too salty?  :P)

Offline Fpqxz

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Re: The Greatest Wars (Or Battles) the Ameri-Centric World has never heard of.
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2012, 05:24:14 pm »
More amusingly, we also kinda skimmed over the American Revolution.

I'm actually curious about what England tends to think of that.  What their side of the story is.

My impression was that they try not to think about it.

Unfortunately, though the revolution is obviously important in American history and world history since then, it is not really considered significant enough in British history to warrant class time outside specific study of colonialism. Just another transfer of colonial power at a time when they were being traded about like football cards.

The American revolution was, however, a devastating blow to the British ruling class, especially because it meant that they couldn't dump their convicts in the Thirteen Colonies anymore.  Which is why you guys had to sail around the world and dump them in Australia.

The sad thing is, even though the USA was indirectly responsible for the creation of the Commonwealth of Australia AND saved your asses in WWII, your economy is doing better than ours.
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: The Greatest Wars (Or Battles) the Ameri-Centric World has never heard of.
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2012, 05:52:42 pm »
Thanks for the information guys.

I didn't expect it to be a mark of shame or anything, I just wanted to fill in some gaps that I'm pretty sure existed due to being an American citizen who had previously only heard the USA's take on the situation in history.
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Offline Random Dinosaur

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Re: The Greatest Wars (Or Battles) the Ameri-Centric World has never heard of.
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2012, 06:37:26 pm »
From an English point of view, the English Civil War. Played a big part in the formation of what would become the basis of lots of world governments and legal systems, including the US.

Also, the Great Emu War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War) of Australia.

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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: The Greatest Wars (Or Battles) the Ameri-Centric World has never heard of.
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2012, 04:24:09 am »
The sad thing is, even though the USA was indirectly responsible for the creation of the Commonwealth of Australia AND saved your asses in WWII, your economy is doing better than ours.

Not that any Australian would ever admit it.
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Offline wyvern999

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Re: The Greatest Wars (Or Battles) the Ameri-Centric World has never heard of.
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2012, 02:50:14 pm »


The sad thing is, even though the USA was indirectly responsible for the creation of the Commonwealth of Australia AND saved your asses in WWII, your economy is doing better than ours.

Whether we in the west like it or not Russia saved all our "asses" in WWII. Our 1 year on the european mainland cannot be compared to Russia's 4 years combatting the German invasion of their homeland. The largest armies, the biggest battles, the highest number of casualties were all in the east not the west. Read your history. WW2 was won and lost in the vast interior of Russia. Everything else was secondary to theatre of war.

This is the kind of thing that happens when history is taught from our own point of view. Especially when it means giving credit to those who we no longer like, in this case "communist" Russia.