Author Topic: Why Is Sex Outside of Marriage A Sin?  (Read 50989 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Material Defender

  • Food Scientist in Space
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 959
  • Gender: Male
  • Pilot of the Pyro-GX
Re: Why Is Sex Outside of Marriage A Sin?
« Reply #75 on: November 16, 2012, 10:30:28 am »

Quote
You forgot something here. Drinking and drugs can lead to debaucherous behavior. And gambling has potential to lead to broken homes and tremendous loss. Not will, but may.
  Why risk it? Not to mention the fact that you are sacrificing your eternal soul for worldly pleasures.

I assume you aren't Catholic, possibly not Orthodox, because there's this thing... called. Forgiveness. I thought God was Merciful? To forgive is Divine?

So one only is 'sacrificing' their eternal soul if they have no desire to be forgiven of their sins. Your assumption that you do one bad thing and go directly to hell is bonkers.
The material needs a defender more than the spiritual. If there is a higher power, it can defend itself from the material. Thus denotes 'higher power'.

"Not to know is bad. Not to want to know is worse. Not to hope is unthinkable. Not to care is unforgivable." -Nigerian Saying

Offline rookie

  • Miscreant, petty criminal, and all around nice guy
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2200
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why Is Sex Outside of Marriage A Sin?
« Reply #76 on: November 16, 2012, 10:38:41 am »
I assume you aren't Catholic, possibly not Orthodox, because there's this thing... called. Forgiveness. I thought God was Merciful? To forgive is Divine?

So one only is 'sacrificing' their eternal soul if they have no desire to be forgiven of their sins. Your assumption that you do one bad thing and go directly to hell is bonkers.

Well, forgiveness as I understood it was supposed to be insurance for honest oopsies or slip ups or lapses. Like swearing when you drop something on your toe or ignorance of something being a bonafide sin or someone pushing your buttons enough to react. Or it was supposed to fix the past, so to speak. As in before I was saved I yadda yadda yadda, but now I'm forgiven. I think forgiveness to cover willful sinning is not the way it works.
The difference between 0 and 1 is infinite. The difference between 1 and a million is a matter of degree. - Zack Johnson

Quote from: davedan board=pg thread=6573 post=218058 time=1286247542
I'll stop eating beef lamb and pork the same day they start letting me eat vegetarians.

Offline PastorDave

  • Neonate
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Gender: Male
  • Blessed in our Lord Jesus Christ
Re: Why Is Sex Outside of Marriage A Sin?
« Reply #77 on: November 16, 2012, 10:42:01 am »
Catholicism is a cult and of the devil. God loves you and me but hates our sin because our sin separates us from being with Him for eternity in Heaven. If you want to enter the kingdom of Heaven, one needs to walk right with Jesus and that means avoiding ALL worldly temptations every day as they do not please the holy spirit.
“Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you" Exodus 20:12

Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

  • He's Got Great Big Teeth and the Holy Hand Grenade!
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2919
  • Gender: Male
  • Hit me with your best shot! Fire awaaaay!
Re: Why Is Sex Outside of Marriage A Sin?
« Reply #78 on: November 16, 2012, 10:42:50 am »

Quote
You forgot something here. Drinking and drugs can lead to debaucherous behavior. And gambling has potential to lead to broken homes and tremendous loss. Not will, but may.
  Why risk it? Not to mention the fact that you are sacrificing your eternal soul for worldly pleasures.
Here's a question: I am an atheist, so religious arguments won't persuade me, so do you have any legitimate non-religious reasons as to why people should not have safe premarital sex?

Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

  • He's Got Great Big Teeth and the Holy Hand Grenade!
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2919
  • Gender: Male
  • Hit me with your best shot! Fire awaaaay!
Re: Why Is Sex Outside of Marriage A Sin?
« Reply #79 on: November 16, 2012, 10:44:22 am »
Catholicism is a cult and of the devil.
Pastor Dave I've been going easy on you because up until now you haven't really said anything offensive, but that kind of crosses the line. I have family members who are Catholic and I don't much care for being told they are members of a Satanic cult. Just a head's up that this kind of rhetoric is not appreciated.

Offline RinellaWasHere

  • Man Without Pants
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 970
  • Gender: Male
  • The Scottish Storyteller
Re: Why Is Sex Outside of Marriage A Sin?
« Reply #80 on: November 16, 2012, 10:46:55 am »
I assume you aren't Catholic, possibly not Orthodox, because there's this thing... called. Forgiveness. I thought God was Merciful? To forgive is Divine?

So one only is 'sacrificing' their eternal soul if they have no desire to be forgiven of their sins. Your assumption that you do one bad thing and go directly to hell is bonkers.

Well, forgiveness as I understood it was supposed to be insurance for honest oopsies or slip ups or lapses. Like swearing when you drop something on your toe or ignorance of something being a bonafide sin or someone pushing your buttons enough to react. Or it was supposed to fix the past, so to speak. As in before I was saved I yadda yadda yadda, but now I'm forgiven. I think forgiveness to cover willful sinning is not the way it works.

I think he was talking to the Pastor. And in Catholicism, even willful sins can be forgiven. In fact, part of Reconciliation is acknowledging that you knew what you did was wrong and did it anyway.

Catholicism is a cult and of the devil. God loves you and me but hates our sin because our sin separates us from being with Him for eternity in Heaven. If you want to enter the kingdom of Heaven, one needs to walk right with Jesus and that means avoiding ALL worldly temptations every day as they do not please the holy spirit.

I'm going to leave aside your massive swing at my beloved faith here, though only because thisisn't the thread for it. Instead, let's focus on the second half of what you said. Not all things of joy in this life are evil—love, music, good food, friendship— and those are all worldly things. What makes the world so wrong in your eyes? Why is sex, a gift from God, so evil to you? What makes it so bad?
Oh, you take the high road, and I'll take the low road...

My mother did not CHOOSE life. She planned for it.

Is that weird monkey-creature-looking-thing supposed to be a BLACK MAN?

It's Bi-Curious George, well known supporter of the gay agenda.

Offline Material Defender

  • Food Scientist in Space
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 959
  • Gender: Male
  • Pilot of the Pyro-GX
Re: Why Is Sex Outside of Marriage A Sin?
« Reply #81 on: November 16, 2012, 10:56:16 am »
Are we talking with Jack Chick in Disguise? You do know, Pastor Dave, that Protestantism was BORN from Catholicism. Calling the very thing that gave you your roots the devil is calling yourself the devil.

I assume you aren't Catholic, possibly not Orthodox, because there's this thing... called. Forgiveness. I thought God was Merciful? To forgive is Divine?

So one only is 'sacrificing' their eternal soul if they have no desire to be forgiven of their sins. Your assumption that you do one bad thing and go directly to hell is bonkers.

Well, forgiveness as I understood it was supposed to be insurance for honest oopsies or slip ups or lapses. Like swearing when you drop something on your toe or ignorance of something being a bonafide sin or someone pushing your buttons enough to react. Or it was supposed to fix the past, so to speak. As in before I was saved I yadda yadda yadda, but now I'm forgiven. I think forgiveness to cover willful sinning is not the way it works.

You can willfully sin and be forgiven. At least in catholic faith. Sincere desire for absolution and forgiveness is a requirement, so you may regret taking the action at all (Though not always), but you can gain forgiveness for any action. No matter how bad it is. Why Catholic Priests cannot be used as witnesses if they had a crime confessed to them in the reconciliation room. It's like a 1000x against their religion and would undermine the very concept of reconciliation. Though most Catholic Priests advise, if the crime wouldn't get the death penalty and Justice asks for reasonable punishment, that they accept the prison sentence and turn themselves in.

In Catholic tradition, there are two levels of sin. Venial, which are forgiven at every mass, and Mortal, which can only be forgiven through reconciliation. All sins start as venial, and only become mortal if you understand they are mortal. I was taught Lying is the most basic mortal sin and that goes up to things like genocide.

Its subject must be a grave (or serious) matter. (Though all the ten commandants are serious matters, so lying and cursing with God's name is mortal sinnery, provided the lie is more than a little.)
It must be committed with full knowledge, both of the sin and of the gravity of the offense (no one is considered ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are inborn as part of human knowledge, but these principles can be misunderstood in a particular context).
It must be committed with deliberate and complete consent, enough for it to have been a personal decision to commit the sin. (Thus, if you rob someone to appease someone holding like, your love, with a gun to her head and you do it, it's only considered Venial.)

Orthodox tradition has a larger list of sins, with Pardonable being the bottom (Pardon as in you don't need penance to gain absolution) to Mortal (Meaning you need LOTS of penance for that absolution) at the top. It's seven long list.
The material needs a defender more than the spiritual. If there is a higher power, it can defend itself from the material. Thus denotes 'higher power'.

"Not to know is bad. Not to want to know is worse. Not to hope is unthinkable. Not to care is unforgivable." -Nigerian Saying

Offline PastorDave

  • Neonate
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Gender: Male
  • Blessed in our Lord Jesus Christ
Re: Why Is Sex Outside of Marriage A Sin?
« Reply #82 on: November 16, 2012, 11:00:08 am »
Roman Catholicism makes salvation a long, complicated process with no assurance of eternal life and forgiveness of all sin. Baptism, Mass, Confession, prayers to Mary and the Saints(evil), good works, and purgatory are all added to faith in Christ. By contrast, the Bible teaches salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone. Bible salvation is God's free gift to any sinner who believes that Christ died for their sins and rose again for their defense. Bible salvation gives immediate assurance of eternal life. No church ever saved anyone, but Christ can and will save everyone who will come and trust Him as their Saviour. Membership or faith in a church does not secure salvation for anyone, but trust Christ and Him alone and you will be saved for all eternity. The Catholic religion is straight out of the pits of hell.  I do not call Catholicism a "church" because it is NOT a church, it is a FALSE religion.  How can you have a "church" when heathen people gather in the name of false doctrine?  You can't Jesus clearly made a direct correlation between worship and doctrine in Mark 6:6-9. 
“Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you" Exodus 20:12

Offline rookie

  • Miscreant, petty criminal, and all around nice guy
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2200
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why Is Sex Outside of Marriage A Sin?
« Reply #83 on: November 16, 2012, 11:03:13 am »

I think he was talking to the Pastor.

Yeah, I know he was. But at that point, Pastor hasn't said anything too dickish. I thought the over sarcastic tone wasn't warranted just yet. I was hoping we'd wait til he said something a bit more douchey (like Catholicism is a cult and of the devil) before we jumped on him.

While I'm here, pastor, have you given any thought to my questions regarding Hebrews applying to premarital sex sans payment? Because one of our rules here is answering direct questions. I find ir a bit interesting (not to mention very telling) you thought it more worthy to jump on Catholicism due to a remark in passing rather than defend the Bible.

MD, you're right about the letter of the law. I was talking about the spirit. Sorry, I should have made that clearer. But it was meant to be an aside, not really meriting a serious discussion in regards to the topic at hand.
The difference between 0 and 1 is infinite. The difference between 1 and a million is a matter of degree. - Zack Johnson

Quote from: davedan board=pg thread=6573 post=218058 time=1286247542
I'll stop eating beef lamb and pork the same day they start letting me eat vegetarians.

Offline Material Defender

  • Food Scientist in Space
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 959
  • Gender: Male
  • Pilot of the Pyro-GX
Re: Why Is Sex Outside of Marriage A Sin?
« Reply #84 on: November 16, 2012, 11:06:24 am »
I tend to always be somewhat sarcastic, even when I intend no offense.

Roman Catholicism makes salvation a long, complicated process with no assurance of eternal life and forgiveness of all sin. Baptism, Mass, Confession, prayers to Mary and the Saints(evil), good works, and purgatory are all added to faith in Christ. By contrast, the Bible teaches salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone. Bible salvation is God's free gift to any sinner who believes that Christ died for their sins and rose again for their defense. Bible salvation gives immediate assurance of eternal life. No church ever saved anyone, but Christ can and will save everyone who will come and trust Him as their Saviour. Membership or faith in a church does not secure salvation for anyone, but trust Christ and Him alone and you will be saved for all eternity. The Catholic religion is straight out of the pits of hell.  I do not call Catholicism a "church" because it is NOT a church, it is a FALSE religion.  How can you have a "church" when heathen people gather in the name of false doctrine?  You can't Jesus clearly made a direct correlation between worship and doctrine in Mark 6:6-9.

Did you seriously just call people who went to heaven evil? Are you... how... what? My brain just. No. No. Just. Blarg. Saints are people who have gone to heaven.

The sacraments are there to help bring people closer to God and absolve them of sin. It does not get in their way, instead reconfirms and pulls them closer in.

On Good works...

17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. James 2.

It also seems to be that your contradicting yourself. If all Jesus requires is belief and faith in him, wouldn't that mean you can do whatever you want while maintaining a fervent belief in him and still go to heaven? Why this concern for sin, when love of Jesus Christ will get you to heaven regardless of that?
The material needs a defender more than the spiritual. If there is a higher power, it can defend itself from the material. Thus denotes 'higher power'.

"Not to know is bad. Not to want to know is worse. Not to hope is unthinkable. Not to care is unforgivable." -Nigerian Saying

Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

  • He's Got Great Big Teeth and the Holy Hand Grenade!
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2919
  • Gender: Male
  • Hit me with your best shot! Fire awaaaay!
Re: Why Is Sex Outside of Marriage A Sin?
« Reply #85 on: November 16, 2012, 11:06:52 am »
I would also like the Pastor to acknowledge my question on premarital sex.

Offline RinellaWasHere

  • Man Without Pants
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 970
  • Gender: Male
  • The Scottish Storyteller
Re: Why Is Sex Outside of Marriage A Sin?
« Reply #86 on: November 16, 2012, 11:16:29 am »
I'm not going to derail the thread too much, but there is no way I'm letting this go unanswered.

Roman Catholicism makes salvation a long, complicated process with no assurance of eternal life and forgiveness of all sin.

Salvation isn't complicated. Do the right thing, and seek forgiveness for your sins, and the Kingdom of heaven shall be open to you. And it's true, we don't guarantee eternal life, but that's not a bad thing. If there's no guarantee that you'll be rewarded simply for saying a few words, then you have a reason to go out and work amongst the people and help them through their trouble. By that, you earn your place in Heaven.

Quote
Baptism, Mass, Confession, prayers to Mary and the Saints(evil), good works, and purgatory are all added to faith in Christ.

You do realize we don't actually pray to Mary and the saints, right? We ask them to pray for us, much like how you might ask a friend to pray for you in troubled times. We pray to God and Jesus Christ.

And what, exactly, is wrong with doing good works? Someone needs to do them, after all, and how could a loving God possibly be bothered by helping His creations, even if it isn't a requirement for salvation?

Christ, the Holy Son of God Himself, chose to work amongst the poor and marginalized. Who are we mere mortals to turn our backs on them?

Quote
By contrast, the Bible teaches salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone. Bible salvation is God's free gift to any sinner who believes that Christ died for their sins and rose again for their defense. Bible salvation gives immediate assurance of eternal life. No church ever saved anyone, but Christ can and will save everyone who will come and trust Him as their Saviour. Membership or faith in a church does not secure salvation for anyone, but trust Christ and Him alone and you will be saved for all eternity. The Catholic religion is straight out of the pits of hell.  I do not call Catholicism a "church" because it is NOT a church, it is a FALSE religion.  How can you have a "church" when heathen people gather in the name of false doctrine?  You can't Jesus clearly made a direct correlation between worship and doctrine in Mark 6:6-9.

I trust in God with all my heart, but that doesn't mean I have to slavishly obey a book written thousands of years ago halfway across the world, in a language I can neither speak nor read, by men who lived in a patriarchal, militaristic theocracy. God's world has changed and grown, and as His follower I must change and grow with it.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 11:18:03 am by RinellaWasHere »
Oh, you take the high road, and I'll take the low road...

My mother did not CHOOSE life. She planned for it.

Is that weird monkey-creature-looking-thing supposed to be a BLACK MAN?

It's Bi-Curious George, well known supporter of the gay agenda.

Offline PastorDave

  • Neonate
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Gender: Male
  • Blessed in our Lord Jesus Christ
Re: Why Is Sex Outside of Marriage A Sin?
« Reply #87 on: November 16, 2012, 11:44:52 am »
Quote
I trust in God with all my heart, but that doesn't mean I have to slavishly obey a book written thousands of years ago halfway across the world, in a language I can neither speak nor read, by men who lived in a patriarchal, militaristic theocracy. God's world has changed and grown, and as His follower I must change and grow with it.
And therin is your problem. The 1611 King James Holy Bible is the literal infallible word of God. You cannot trust in God while making a mockery of his word. And this is why I pray for your soul.
“Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you" Exodus 20:12

Offline RinellaWasHere

  • Man Without Pants
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 970
  • Gender: Male
  • The Scottish Storyteller
Re: Why Is Sex Outside of Marriage A Sin?
« Reply #88 on: November 16, 2012, 12:03:15 pm »
Quote
I trust in God with all my heart, but that doesn't mean I have to slavishly obey a book written thousands of years ago halfway across the world, in a language I can neither speak nor read, by men who lived in a patriarchal, militaristic theocracy. God's world has changed and grown, and as His follower I must change and grow with it.
And therin is your problem. The 1611 King James Holy Bible is the literal infallible word of God. You cannot trust in God while making a mockery of his word. And this is why I pray for your soul.

A translation of a translation from four hundred years ago? That's the infallible version? I'd think the most accurate version to the direct words of God is the original Hebrew and Aramaic. What makes an English translation from Latin so special and deserving of love?

I can't help but notice that you utterly ignored the rest of my post. You've been doing it often, in fact— many good points and questions have been raised by other posters and up have gone totally unanswered by you. You've spent your whole time here posting preplanned rants condemning people you've never met, ignoring anything you can't or don't want to answer because you're afraid of having to think for yourself, and demeaning my friends on this board because you consider yourself above them.

I'm sorry I don't seem to hear God's Word the way you do. Then again, our beloved Lord saw fit to have me born hearing-impaired.
Oh, you take the high road, and I'll take the low road...

My mother did not CHOOSE life. She planned for it.

Is that weird monkey-creature-looking-thing supposed to be a BLACK MAN?

It's Bi-Curious George, well known supporter of the gay agenda.

Offline PastorDave

  • Neonate
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Gender: Male
  • Blessed in our Lord Jesus Christ
Re: Why Is Sex Outside of Marriage A Sin?
« Reply #89 on: November 16, 2012, 12:06:18 pm »
I'm not ignoring the posts. I don't have much time therefore I respond to the points that I can.
“Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you" Exodus 20:12