Microsoft hit with yet another EU fine

[dpareja]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2013/03/06/technology-microsoft-ec-fine-european.html

So Microsoft screwed up with some Win 7 installations and didn't offer a choice of browser:

The European Union Commission has fined Microsoft Corp. €561 million ($752 million) for breaking the terms of an earlier agreement to offer users a choice of internet browser.

The penalty is a first for Brussels — no company has ever failed to keep its end of a bargain with EU authorities before.

In 2009, Microsoft agreed to pay a €860 million fine and promised to give Windows users the option of choosing another browser rather than having Internet Explorer automatically installed.

But Microsoft failed to stick to the deal for some 15 million installations of Windows 7 in Europe from May 2011 until July 2012. The company admitted the failure last year, adding that it was a mistake.

This was a case of quis custodiet ipsos custodes:

Almunia conceded that the Commission had been "naive" in appointing Microsoft itself to oversee compliance with the agreement, and said the Commission won't allow that in the future.

They've paid fines before, but only this time are they admitting to having screwed up:

In all, Microsoft has now paid a grand total of €2.2 billion in fines to the Commission since 1998, when regulators opened their first investigation against the company. Some of those fines were for failing to obey the commission's orders, but this is the first time a company has admitted to breaking a promise made to the EU regulator.

Of course, they themselves have gone running to the EU regulators:

In a sign of the times, Microsoft itself turned to the watchdog in 2012, asking it to investigate Google for anticompetitive practices.

I wonder how much of a bite that takes out of their profit margin.

[Yaezakura]

...Am I the only one who thinks it's wrong that Microsoft is being forced to offer a competitor's software inside of its own software? It kinda seems to me to be little different than mandating that McDonald's serve Whoppers and send all proceeds to Burger King.

[Askold]

Is it wrong that Microsoft isn't the only company that can sell you computer games?

It's more like if you buy a car and aren't allow to buy spare parts or fuel or anything from other companies. (Ok, this was a bad metaphor.)

[Yaezakura]

Is it wrong that Microsoft isn't the only company that can sell you computer games?

It's more like if you buy a car and aren't allow to buy spare parts or fuel or anything from other companies. (Ok, this was a bad metaphor.)

Except that's not what it's like at all. Microsoft has never made it so you can't use other browsers if you want to. But it just seems wrong that they're forced to offer those other browsers as part of the installation of their product.

[Sylvana]

Except that's not what it's like at all. Microsoft has never made it so you can't use other browsers if you want to. But it just seems wrong that they're forced to offer those other browsers as part of the installation of their product.

I would care, if Microsoft didn't basically have a complete monopoly on all new PCs anyway. Their product will be sold and distributed, they will make their money because they sell their product before the consumer even buys a PC. What Microsoft could have done is build their OS without internet explorer being a core component, and uninstallable as a result, and just provided their product without a browser at all.

Microsoft has a massive monopoly and they are trying to make it grow ever larger with windows 8. I give them credit for knowing how to play the game and ensure their product gets sold, but the way they go about it is anti-competitive and they deserve every fine they get.

[m52nickerson]

and just provided their product without a browser at all.

So how would that work?  The only way I see that it going is the PC makers getting in bead with Google and new PC's having Chrome installed.

[Captain Jack Harkness]

...Am I the only one who thinks it's wrong that Microsoft is being forced to offer a competitor's software inside of its own software? It kinda seems to me to be little different than mandating that McDonald's serve Whoppers and send all proceeds to Burger King.

Nope.  I think it's retarded that the EU is FINING them for not giving the users more than the default software.  Fucking Europe.  Is it that fucking hard to put on another browser yourself?  It's not like Windows fucking BLOCKS you from installing Chrome or Firefox or Safari or Opera or whatever.  This is why politicians, people, and business complain about excessive regulation.

In my opinion, this is one of the stupidest things I've read this morning.  Of course, that's only because I haven't been on the mainpage yet.

Also, as much as people rag on IE, it has fucking gotten better. :/  Microsoft DOES have programmers that are more than just trained fucking monkeys.

Except that's not what it's like at all. Microsoft has never made it so you can't use other browsers if you want to. But it just seems wrong that they're forced to offer those other browsers as part of the installation of their product.

I would care, if Microsoft didn't basically have a complete monopoly on all new PCs anyway. Their product will be sold and distributed, they will make their money because they sell their product before the consumer even buys a PC. What Microsoft could have done is build their OS without internet explorer being a core component, and uninstallable as a result, and just provided their product without a browser at all.

Microsoft has a massive monopoly and they are trying to make it grow ever larger with windows 8. I give them credit for knowing how to play the game and ensure their product gets sold, but the way they go about it is anti-competitive and they deserve every fine they get.

Monopoly?  Seriously?  They have a big share of the market, but to say they have a "monopoly" on PCs is stupid.  Certainly they have a large market share, but they don't have complete control over the fucking market.  In fact, the Chromebook comes to mind as a recent challenger in the PC market.  This is BEFORE you consider the mobile market or Apple or any of that shit.  Also, notice how they already have a foothold from XP?  Yeah.  Lots of people haven't upgraded to 7 yet.  Even so, they offer a quality product and are OS veterans.  They're popular for a fucking reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

Also, I think IE is tied to some core stuff in IIS and similar shit.  Is it really that bad to have your server/website management service closely linked to your default browser?  Be glad they provide you a browser at all.  I'm sure that if they didn't "include" a browser at all, that would cause a LOT of headaches for those who don't give two shits about things that aren't IE.  It's gotta be usable for people who like IE, ya know.  Yeah, I know.  It's shocking to think that someone could LIKE using IE!

[Dakota Bob]

Doesn't the google frontpage have a big thing saying "Upgrade to Google Chrome" if you are using a browser that isn't theirs? ain't seeing the point of this fine.

[Captain Jack Harkness]

Doesn't the google frontpage have a big thing saying "Upgrade to Google Chrome" if you are using a browser that isn't theirs? ain't seeing the point of this fine.

I think so.  Of course, installing other browsers is HARD.  You have to know something about how to use a computer.  Yeah, I'm sure it was a mass purchase, but is it really that hard to get a temporary IT guy to resolve the issue for you with a batch script that puts Chrome or some shit on the machines?  Apparently so!

Of course, as an IT guy I'm biased by the retarded nature people have with computers most of the time, I guess.

[starseeker]

B-Man, the point of the fine is back from when Internet browsers were new and Netscape was the big one. Microsoft basically used it's monopoly power to have IE be on every computer by default and making it un-uninstallable. EU courts run slow.

And I'd much rather be in a country that doesn't allow monopoly companies to abuse their monopoly to gain even more or to maintain it indefinitely. Also 90% of desktop PCs is still pretty fucking close to a monopoly.

[Yaezakura]

B-Man, the point of the fine is back from when Internet browsers were new and Netscape was the big one. Microsoft basically used it's monopoly power to have IE be on every computer by default and making it un-uninstallable. EU courts run slow.

And I'd much rather be in a country that doesn't allow monopoly companies to abuse their monopoly to gain even more or to maintain it indefinitely. Also 90% of desktop PCs is still pretty fucking close to a monopoly.

Yeah, it was uninstallable, because Windows was built to function with it. Mandates like this basically restrict how Microsoft is allowed to make their programs, despite the fact that while you couldn't uninstall IE, you never had to use it. Now Microsoft is fined if they don't sell competing products for their competitors.

Again, this fine is akin to fining McDonald's because they don't sell Whoppers as part of their Value Meals.

[starseeker]

B-Man, the point of the fine is back from when Internet browsers were new and Netscape was the big one. Microsoft basically used it's monopoly power to have IE be on every computer by default and making it un-uninstallable. EU courts run slow.

And I'd much rather be in a country that doesn't allow monopoly companies to abuse their monopoly to gain even more or to maintain it indefinitely. Also 90% of desktop PCs is still pretty fucking close to a monopoly.

Yeah, it was uninstallable, because Windows was built to function with it. Mandates like this basically restrict how Microsoft is allowed to make their programs, despite the fact that while you couldn't uninstall IE, you never had to use it. Now Microsoft is fined if they don't sell competing products for their competitors.

Again, this fine is akin to fining McDonald's because they don't sell Whoppers as part of their Value Meals.

McDonalds don't have a monopoly on fast food and a history of abusing it.