SCOTUS Hears Gay Marriage Cases

[m52nickerson]

I think they strike down DOMA but up hold prop 8, basically making what defines a marriage as a state issue.

I sincerely doubt they'll uphold it. Most likely they'll dismiss it over the standing issue, letting the Ninth Circuit decision stand.

I don't think they will dismiss it over standing.  I think they are going to say that since this was a voter proposition the people can defend it when the state will not.

In fact I don't like the idea that voter approved laws could not be defended by people if the state does not want to. 

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

I think they strike down DOMA but up hold prop 8, basically making what defines a marriage as a state issue.

I sincerely doubt they'll uphold it. Most likely they'll dismiss it over the standing issue, letting the Ninth Circuit decision stand.

I don't think they will dismiss it over standing.  I think they are going to say that since this was a voter proposition the people can defend it when the state will not.

In fact I don't like the idea that voter approved laws could not be defended by people if the state does not want to.

I kind of agree with you on that--the questioning at the oral arguments was more geared toward whether or not these specific Prop 8 proponents suffered harm which could allow them to have standing. That's why one of the Justices (I forget who) brought up the example of a Prop 8 supporter who would be forced to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. So while someone should be able to defend the law when the government refuses to, the question is about who is legally qualified to do so. So if they don't dismiss it for lack of standing then I believe the odds are stronger that they will invalidate Prop 8 in the narrowest way than to uphold it as constitutional, especially considering Kennedy's past decisions (no matter how cautious he appears).

[nickiknack]

Scalia is the original intent poster boy after all.

Of course he's also an old white landowning male, so what's he got to lose?

I've found this funny, given how Italians were more or less treated like shit during the late 19th/early 20th centuries.

[syaoranvee]

Some handy numbers: http://news.msn.com/politics/gay-marriage-by-the-numbers

I'm hoping for the best here, but I really can't get over how ridiculous this entire situation is. The fact that we're still fighting for equality, and that so many people are still against it. I know their reasoning, but it's ludicrous.

A thousand times this.

The fact that gay marriage and gay rights is still even an ISSUE is depressing.

What's fucking amazing is how many minorites are actively against giving rights.

I'm wondering when this is all said and done and gay rights is settled, how many gays will eventually oppress the trans lot when it's their turn to bat for full blown fight for rights (because let's face it, the gay community would rather focus on the rights of LGB and getting that through first)

[Witchyjoshy]

I'm wondering when this is all said and done and gay rights is settled, how many gays will eventually oppress the trans lot when it's their turn to bat for full blown fight for rights (because let's face it, the gay community would rather focus on the rights of LGB and getting that through first)

I can tell you right now, too fucking many.

As it stands, many are already trying to backstab the trans* community.  I don't know if they account for "most" or "some", but it's certainly a non-trivial number.

[Osama bin Bambi]

I'm wondering when this is all said and done and gay rights is settled, how many gays will eventually oppress the trans lot when it's their turn to bat for full blown fight for rights (because let's face it, the gay community would rather focus on the rights of LGB and getting that through first)

I can tell you right now, too fucking many.

As it stands, many are already trying to backstab the trans* community.  I don't know if they account for "most" or "some", but it's certainly a non-trivial number.

I see this shit all the time, and it sucks. It doesn't help that a lot of people who are widely considered to be "gay icons" like Dan Savage and many lesbian radscums are more than willing to not just throw trans* people under the bus, but tie them down in front of the bus and run over them several times with it.

[kefkaownsall]

As for race this is not really true stateside but I see a lot of LGBT Europeans who are racist fucks (look at all the gay PVV members

[Osama bin Bambi]

As for race this is not really true stateside but I see a lot of LGBT Europeans who are racist fucks (look at all the gay PVV members

Is PVV that Dutch party that Geert Wilders is from? Because he's Islamophobic as all fuck too.

[kefkaownsall]

Yeah although I am liking the pro gay protest some Dutch soccer players are going to do at Qatar
But yeah look at the Islamophobic comments on any gay story involving Muslims.  Way to throw gay Muslims under the bus.  Especially annoying when they are pessimistic (the Islamic community in America is pro gay for instance)

[ironbite]

So Prop 8 will probably be dismissed but it's looking like we've got 5 for DOMA to go away.  That's the ruling I'm more interested in.

Ironbite-see you in June/July for that shit storm.

[nickiknack]

So Prop 8 will probably be dismissed but it's looking like we've got 5 for DOMA to go away.  That's the ruling I'm more interested in.

Ironbite-see you in June/July for that shit storm.

I can't wait.

[Dynamic Dragon]

I have deep sympathy for gay people in Islamic countries.  The sad irony is that their "hated enemy", Israel, is one of the most gay-friendly countries on Earth.

[mellenORL]

There are so many racist and trans hating gay and lesbian folk in my generation...that I just don't start convos on those topics anymore when I'm around them. When you hear, "Trannies are just too closet-y and timid to come out as gay, is what it is!" more than once, you get ulcers and tongue bite wounds from restraining the murderous outrage reflex. For the less common, "Black dick/cunt just makes me sick at the thought of it!" ilk, I have in fact slapped someone in the face, really hard. That was back in Atlanta, I was young and strong, and the fuckwit was asking for it by saying that and worse, over and over to me at a bar. So, I snapped & slapped him so hard he fell off his stool and landed on his tailbone..."broken asshole". I was 86'd, but nobody blamed me for losing my temper, at least.

[The Illusive Man]

The fact that there a homosexual people that discriminate against transgendered people is just fucking stupid. Have they not read / forgotten how and why the APA has use to classify homosexuality as a mental illness? Homosexuality and Sexual Orientation Disturbance: Proposed Change in DSM-II exists for a fucking reason!

[Osama bin Bambi]

I have deep sympathy for gay people in Islamic countries.  The sad irony is that their "hated enemy", Israel, is one of the most gay-friendly countries on Earth.

Not exactly. Same-sex marriage doesn't exist in Israel because civil marriage doesn't exist; all marriages have to be verified by a representative of your religion. If you're Jewish that means you'll have to go to an increasingly fundie rabbinate, and they are extremely homophobic. Israel recognizes marriages performed abroad, but this can be a serious financial inconvenience for some couples. (By the way, this also implies that interfaith marriages cannot be performed in Israel, because no Orthodox rabbi is going to support a partnership which he thinks is a "threat to the future of the Jewish people.")

Also, I've heard that while Tel Aviv is extremely gay-friendly, the Haredi presence in Jerusalem makes that city more dangerous for pride parades, etc. While Israel is legally more progressive than other nations in the area, many Israelis are still homophobic and it's not like it's a queer Eden over there. Also, being "gay-friendly" doesn't excuse any of Israel's other crimes.