Author Topic: What would your perspective on abortion be if the sides were switched?  (Read 3872 times)

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Offline TheReasonator

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What if the pro-choice movement had been absorbed into the Republican Party and identified with conservative ideology and the pro-life movement into the Democrat Party and identified with liberal ideology?

Let's say the religious Right cited scripture claiming that it meant one gets one's soul only at birth and so was against abortion laws because they recognized a different standard of "life" than their God. Then let's say some biologists said that in fact science shows life as an individual organism begins at conception. Of course in real life most biologists will say "but that's not the same question as personhood" but if the abortion debate had became embedded in religion v. science in that particular way would they have been quick to point that out or would they have just kept asserting how science proves that fetuses and embryos are in fact forms of life?

If it happened that way the pro-life movement would be constantly quoting biologists, and small government conservative atheists and also who want to be pro-choice but don't want to endorse religion over science would likely originate the argument that even though it is technically life that it's still not a person. And then the pro-life biologists and liberals following them would decry this as a dangerous argument and relate it to the Holocaust. People have made similar arguments today but in this context the clash of ideological forces would favor the sides to adopt narratives that lead to liberal pro-life and conservative pro-choice sides.

Anti-abortion rhetoric would be spun into a wider "life agenda" rhetoric encouraging social programs, universal health care, early childcare, opposition to the death penalty. A key part of the identity of being a "liberal" would be the emphasis on human life integrated into a broader concept of social welfare and progress.

The conservative pro-choice side would emphasize that it goes against religious tradition to be pro-life and that the government shouldn't be meddling in such private affairs. Liberal emphasis on abortion-related health problems would lead them not only to rebutting them but calling this "nannystatism".

Imagine yourself in such a reality. Everything else is basically the same. Conservatives are still anti-gay, they want creationism taught in public schools, some even still oppose birth control(which the pro-life liberals would if at all only be against it if it posed a chance of killing it after conception took place) but all are fine with abortion. Abortion has still been legalized and liberals are up in arms(figuratively liberals still tend to be against guns and will often tie that point in with abortion) about it.

Imagine your own development in such an environment and what your opinions on abortion would likely have become. Would it be the same? I am pro-choice and have been pro-choice but I think I would've been pro-life up until now or even up until some time after now, since at this point in my life I've been questioning a lot of what I believe and where it came from.

Offline Morgenleoht

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Offline Lt. Fred

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For Christ's sake spell the goddamn party right. It's not fucking hard. DemocratIC. DemocratIC. CHRIST.
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Offline Askold

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I could easily see christian fundamentalist being pro-choice.

It would be no problem to use bible or other christian sources to defend pro-choice side. According to some interpretations any unbabtised babies and the unborn automatically go to heaven so I don't doubt that there could be fundies who would support abortion.

Since that would send the featus into heaven while being born into a family unable to support the child might lead them astray.

There would probably be shady christian abortion clinics offering abortions to families of other religions or atheist in order to "save" the fetuses.

I have harder time believing that doctors and scientists would be pro-life the way that you define it.

For Christ's sake spell the goddamn party right. It's not fucking hard. DemocratIC. DemocratIC. CHRIST.
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Offline Søren

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Nope. Dont see why it would change my views. Since I pretty much come from the neutral planets
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Offline Flying Mint Bunny!

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It wouldn't change anything for me. My mum is liberal, but she thinks abortion is wrong. I still ended up becoming pro-choice though.

Also, I don't religiously follow one particular political party, so I wouldn't have a problem with accepting some policies and rejecting others.

Offline Lt. Fred

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For Christ's sake spell the goddamn party right. It's not fucking hard. DemocratIC. DemocratIC. CHRIST.
What is your problem?

I have a thing about people deliberately mispelling things for derogatory purposes.

Next time someone misspells the DemocratIC Party, I'm calling their party the Fuckface Party.
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR

Offline Patches

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I could easily see christian fundamentalist being pro-choice.

It's easier to see than you think, since they pretty much didn't give a damn until Roe v Wade.

Also, the pro-choice position has nothing to do with "ensoulment" or "personhood", but the simple fact that a woman is an autonomous human being and should not be legally compelled to give up her bodily autonomy for the sake of another against her will.  In order for the sides to truly be switched, you'd have to switch the attitudes on feminism and the role of women in society, too.  Doing so would necessarily switch the position on gays, as well, since it's not really possible to simultaneously hold the position that "feminine = lesser" and "feminine male = equal".

In short, the liberal view of abortion comes part and parcel with the liberal view of feminism and humanism.  And swapping the entirety of those ideologies would pretty much mean a total ideology shift, anyway.

Offline Yaezakura

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It doesn't really matter which side of the debate has the winning position. Even if one side wins 99% of the time, you have to give credit to that 1% when it's there.

For this thought experiment to have any weight whatsoever, you have to assume there are people who support abortion rights only because it is part of the Democratic platform. And frankly, I don't think anyone like that exists. And if they do, they probably don't hang around here. Someone who is dogmatically, unthinkingly Democrat is just as bad as someone who is dogmatically, unthinkingly Republican.

In the end, supporting the right side of an issue doesn't hold much weight if you don't understand why you support it or why the issue is important.

Offline Askold

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Re: What would your perspective on abortion be if the sides were switched?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2013, 11:45:38 am »
For Christ's sake spell the goddamn party right. It's not fucking hard. DemocratIC. DemocratIC. CHRIST.
What is your problem?

I have a thing about people deliberately mispelling things for derogatory purposes.

Next time someone misspells the DemocratIC Party, I'm calling their party the Fuckface Party.

a) What makes you think that was intentional?
b) What makes you think that was for deragotary purposes?
c) I see people shortening the democratic party to "democrats" all the time and this does not seem to cause any confusion or rage in other people. The members are commonly called the democrats as well and I have never noticed that to be treated as a deragotary name either.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Dynamic Dragon

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Re: What would your perspective on abortion be if the sides were switched?
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2013, 11:46:59 am »
I don't think it would change.  I'm personally pro-life with exceptions, but as a man, I don't think I have the right to restrict abortions that don't concern me.
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Offline Dynamic Dragon

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Re: What would your perspective on abortion be if the sides were switched?
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2013, 11:48:19 am »
For Christ's sake spell the goddamn party right. It's not fucking hard. DemocratIC. DemocratIC. CHRIST.
What is your problem?

I have a thing about people deliberately mispelling things for derogatory purposes.

Next time someone misspells the DemocratIC Party, I'm calling their party the Fuckface Party.

a) What makes you think that was intentional?
b) What makes you think that was for deragotary purposes?
c) I see people shortening the democratic party to "democrats" all the time and this does not seem to cause any confusion or rage in other people. The members are commonly called the democrats as well and I have never noticed that to be treated as a deragotary name either.
It might not be derogatory. 

This reminds me of a time when two Cleveland politicians misspelled their party affiliations as "Democart" and "Rebuplican".
Learn from the past, live in the present, prepare for the future.

Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

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Re: What would your perspective on abortion be if the sides were switched?
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2013, 12:06:39 pm »
For Christ's sake spell the goddamn party right. It's not fucking hard. DemocratIC. DemocratIC. CHRIST.
What is your problem?

I have a thing about people deliberately mispelling things for derogatory purposes.

Next time someone misspells the DemocratIC Party, I'm calling their party the Fuckface Party.
Democrat Party. Come at me bro.

Offline Xander Zzyzx

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Re: What would your perspective on abortion be if the sides were switched?
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2013, 12:33:16 pm »
I could easily see christian fundamentalist being pro-choice.

Actually, even then, I couldn't see fundamentalists being pro-choice. They would still be as anti-choice as ever, except instead of being against abortion, they would be citing religious references to call for compulsory abortions. They would apply this compulsory abortion to any pregnant woman they deem to be an unfit mother; the criteria of which would be religiously based, and imposed on any woman who is of a different belief system than theirs.

But that's just the way I see it: They never want it to be the woman's right to choose.

Now as for my view, it wouldn't change one bit, since I am and have always been for choice, and the woman's right to choose.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 12:36:16 pm by Tiado »