Author Topic: The Trial of George Zimmerman  (Read 36918 times)

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wrightway

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Re: The Trial of George Zimmerman
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2013, 04:41:07 pm »
I'm not big on court TV. Does anyone have a quick and dirty update of what's gone on so far.

Offline chitoryu12

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Re: The Trial of George Zimmerman
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2013, 04:58:50 pm »
I haven't gone over that, but did any of the other cases involve acting directly against directions from law enforcement personel?
That bit of Zimmerman's behaviour has been mentioned often in arguments about the case and usually it is claimed that Zimmerman had no oblication to obey the person on the line since he/she wasn't a cop. Wether that is true or not I have no idea.

Also, I'd like to know if the people supporting Zimmerman would be just as eagerly defending Martin if he had won the fight...

You do not have an obligation to follow the orders of a dispatcher, but their advice is generally sensible. It also doesn't make it automatically okay for Zimmerman to aggressively pursue an individual who was not in the process of committing a crime. Zimmerman's entire reasoning to the dispatcher was "He's walkin' around, lookin' at houses and all suspicious like." In short, exactly what a regular guy looks like when he's walking home at night.

Frankly, I would have done exactly what Martin did at the sight of someone with a pickup following me when I was alone at night: run the fuck away. If I had a concealed carry license, I'd have also been fully in my rights to respond to someone following me by telling him that I was armed and that he should probably fuck off if he didn't want things to end badly. And if Zimmerman responded by drawing his own gun, he could legally get ventilated.

The irony here is that if Martin was in that exact fictional situation, everyone would be crowing for him to be given the chair.
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Offline mellenORL

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Re: The Trial of George Zimmerman
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2013, 05:09:04 pm »
Yeah, if you call the police and they tell you to stop doing something, it's typically a pretty clear indication of what a cop would have told you even if the person saying it isn't one. Things such as 'Do not go chasing after someone with a gun' should fall into basic logic in most cases, and not require much offical training.

Zimmerman knew he was speaking to an officer on that phone call. It was a non-emergency routing of a 911 directly to Sanford PD. He called in all the time as a neighborhood barney fife "watchman". It actually sounds like Zimmerman is deliberately ignoring the officer;
"Are you following him?"
"Yah."
"Okay, we don't need you to do that."
"Okay." <huffing and puffing as he walked even faster after Martin>
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Offline Jack Mann

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Re: The Trial of George Zimmerman
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2013, 10:05:38 pm »
Eric's quote is directly from Florida statutes.

Quote
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

That's the relevant section.  And I'll agree it's being poorly written, poorly interpreted law, and I hope the court rejects it in this case.  But it doesn't apply solely to someone's home.
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Offline erictheblue

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Re: The Trial of George Zimmerman
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2013, 07:25:09 am »

Quote
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

That's the relevant section.  And I'll agree it's being poorly written, poorly interpreted law, and I hope the court rejects it in this case.  But it doesn't apply solely to someone's home.

The initial aggressor has no right to self defense. All this law says is "if someone is attacking you (or someone else), you can fight back." Also, if the initial aggressor does not use deadly force, you cannot fight back with deadly force.

For example, say I walk up and punch you. I'm the initial aggressor, so you can defend yourself. However, your defense must be in proportion to my initial aggression. You can hit me back, but you cannot pull out a gun and shoot me. If you do pull a gun, you lose all claim of self-defense. If I then turn around, pull a gun, and shoot you, I can claim self-defense, since you are the one who escalated to deadly force.

In a similar situation, if you are walking down a public street and see two men attacking a third man with knives, you can pull a gun and shoot one of the attackers. You are preventing "death or great bodily harm" to another person. As with above, though, if the aggressors are only using their fists, you cannot pull a gun (since fists are not considered deadly force).

Third scenario... You are walking through a woody area of a public park at night. You hear signs of a struggle, and run towards them. You see what reasonably appears to be a man attempting to rape a woman. Rape is a forcible felony, so you can pull a gun and shoot him. This last is a tad bit of a gray area because you are clearly escalating the violence. However, it does fall within the wording of the law. Though you would be better off running up and trying to just fight the man off.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 07:32:35 am by erictheblue »
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: The Trial of George Zimmerman
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2013, 07:58:33 am »
Hmm...with that last one, Eric, would putting the gun to the offender's head and telling him to stop be reasonable and justifiable under the law?  It gives him the chance to stop and maybe even run (and live), but if he keeps going...you gave him a clear warning with clear indication as to what would happen if he continued.  In that case, I'd think it'd be well within reason to, for lack of a better term, blow his god damned head off if he refuses to stop.
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Offline Jack Mann

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Re: The Trial of George Zimmerman
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2013, 09:34:11 am »
Well, understand, according to Zimmerman, Martin was slamming his head into the sidewalk and saying he was going to kill him.  If we believe that version of events (and there are many reasons not to), then he would have been at risk for his life, and legally justified in using lethal force.

I am not saying that version of events is true, of course.  I don't find him remotely credible for a number of reasons.  But that's the story the defense is going with, and why their defense will likely draw on Stand-Your-Ground.
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Re: The Trial of George Zimmerman
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2013, 02:23:26 pm »
.............

Ironbite-I need a picture of some dude facepalming made up of facepalms please.

wrightway

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Re: The Trial of George Zimmerman
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2013, 03:21:01 pm »
Gee, I wonder where little Georgie learned racism from.

Offline unknown

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Re: The Trial of George Zimmerman
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2013, 03:29:16 pm »
So, they're gonna call a prosecution witness, however, in the "preview" they showed, he says he saw two people fighting on the ground, and the one on top was wearing dark clothes, so there's speculation that the defense is going to use it as proof that Martin was was the aggressor.

Offline dpareja

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Re: The Trial of George Zimmerman
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2013, 03:43:31 pm »
.............

Ironbite-I need a picture of some dude facepalming made up of facepalms please.


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Re: The Trial of George Zimmerman
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2013, 04:15:55 pm »
Eric's quote is directly from Florida statutes.

Quote
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

That's the relevant section.  And I'll agree it's being poorly written, poorly interpreted law, and I hope the court rejects it in this case.  But it doesn't apply solely to someone's home.

Here's what I have issue with, though. Weren't Zimmerman's actions that led up to him supposedly being attacked unlawful? He was essentially stalking someone. Last I checked, stalking isn't legal.

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Re: The Trial of George Zimmerman
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2013, 11:23:03 pm »
Stay Classy, Defense Attorney and Family:



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Re: The Trial of George Zimmerman
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2013, 11:54:08 pm »
his wife looks plastic, and his daughter looks like a would-be Paris Hilton.
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