Author Topic: Fun times in Syria  (Read 16509 times)

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Offline Shane for Wax

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Re: Fun times in Syria
« Reply #45 on: August 31, 2013, 06:49:43 pm »
Fred I really do have to wonder where you get your history lessons then I remembered the stunt you tried to pull a while back.

Jesus fucking Christ. People will fight each other. It's not always the neighbor or not so neighbor's responsibility to stop it. At least not on their own. That causes trouble. But at the same time there's a fuckload wrong when most of the UN is too fucking scared to say boo to anything. In trying to prevent another war, you cause a worse one to come about. Maybe not immediately but if you don't nip something in the bud it'll just grow and grow until you can't just quickly cut it out.

Unfortunately when it comes to situations like this there are no real quick, easy solutions. And if people expect it they need to come back to planet Earth.

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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: Fun times in Syria
« Reply #46 on: August 31, 2013, 06:53:32 pm »
Fred I really do have to wonder where you get your history lessons then I remembered the stunt you tried to pull a while back.

No argument?
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Offline Her3tiK

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Re: Fun times in Syria
« Reply #47 on: August 31, 2013, 10:45:02 pm »
Every news article I've read, watched, or heard has made it clear that there's no interest in an invasion. What's being discussed is airstrikes like those conducted a few years ago in Libya.

President Obama said Saturday that the United States has decided to use military force against Syria, saying last week’s alleged chemical weapons attack there was “an attack on human dignity,” but that he has decided to seek congressional authorization for such a strike.

The announcement appeared to put off an imminent cruise missile attack on Syria and opens the door to what will almost certainly be a contentious and protracted debate.
The Washington Post

President Obama stunned the capital and paused his march to war on Saturday by asking Congress to give him authorization before he launches a limited military strike against the Syrian government in retaliation for a chemical weapons attack.
The New York Times

There's no plan to invade. These are just limited attacks that are supposed to show the world that the use of chemical weapons isn't condoned. The attacks probably won't do much of anything except deliver that message. I don't support it, but I understand the logic behind it. But damn people, pay attention to the news.

And what's not to say it will turn into a clusterfuck somewhere down the road where troops are sent in, and we're bogged down for years to come.
Seeing as Russia and Iran are threatening to engage us/Israel if we make a move, fuck yeah there are going to be problems. Iran may not be in the best shape (thanks to our sanctions), but Russia can still fuck us up bad.
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Offline Her3tiK

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Re: Fun times in Syria
« Reply #48 on: August 31, 2013, 11:23:55 pm »
I don't know how many of you knew this, but today was the Official Unofficial Protest War in Syria Day. Think Occupy 2.0, but somehow more impotent. I attended the San Diego rally out of mild interest and boredom, and I'm not entirely sure it was worth my afternoon.

To start off, just like the Occupy movement, there was not a very strong consensus as to the purpose of the rally (somehow 'No War in Syria' is not clear enough). There were asshats with anti-Monsanto, anti-GMO, and legalize weed signs, and this one lady who would not shut up about the "Zionist plot". This is why I hate left-leaning rallies; nobody can stick to one fucking subject as the source of their outrage. Everyone has to drag their pet project in to this. Hell, even the speakers couldn't stick to the topic without careening into "Legalize weed", "Release nonviolent (drug) offenders", or whatever else bullshit that isn't remotely related to bombing another country.

And the speakers. Oh my gods did these people piss me off. The first dude starts off with this dumbass, feelgood meditation (complete with a bell) to contemplate "the inner peace within our hearts". The rest were pretty much the same; liberal activists with the message that "war is bad" and other typical speeches that, while passionate, were rather light on solutions outside of more rallies and voting. There were a few, however, that were outright hilarious. A couple of them ran independent radio stations, cuz that's such an effective means of communication nowadays. One of them thought Secretary of State John Kerry, the same asshat that somehow lost to Bush in 2004, was the right man to patch up all the political turmoil in the Middle East. I have never wanted to hit someone so hard out of sheer disgust in my entire life.
This other dude had a major hardon for Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., and was, I thought, a complete disgrace to the man's name. He spoke of the great accomplishments King managed as the civil rights leader, but has clearly failed to understand how much King had to suffer to make his dream a reality. I sincerely doubt anybody in that crowd realizes what we'll all have to go through to affect the change we desire. The only speaker I have some respect for is a woman who's part of some Muslim-American activist group, who has family in Syria. She had, hands down, the best grasp of the events in Syria, and made some of the best points of anyone all afternoon. Naturally, the local news stations who'd put their mics up on the podium, pulled said mics and promptly left when this woman started talking about how Obama's violating the Constitution. Talk about journalism, right?

While the overall message of these protests may be heard, if only because of their (inter)national scope, I sincerely doubt San Diego will be much help overall. The afternoon was filled with empty platitudes that solve nothing. Sure, most of the people there may feel better, and certainly gain a sense of accomplishment, but they're not going to be useful on their own. Waving signs at traffic (I swear to gods, that was the best idea they had) will solve nothing. These people have no interest in taking the kinds of drastic steps needed to be heard and obeyed. Like it or not, nothing will get done if our outrage is not feared in Washington; until the leaders have to start worrying about their careers, if not their well-being, they have no reason to listen to us.

Occupy proved that. Occupy had everyone in power scared. Even if the reaction was delayed, Wall St. was scared. The media and government paid attention. Tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people, gathered together in every major city across the country, forced the debate to shift in a direction we wanted it to go, and they did it by becoming the kind of nuisance that gets attention. These people put their lives on hold to send a message... and promptly forgot what that message was. Every asshat with an agenda tried to solve their pet problem, and the entire movement lost cohesion. All that political power, all that outrage, all that fear, completely wasted because those fools wouldn't accept leadership to rally them, or take more direct action than camping in the public square. The same people who set up Occupy San Diego are running this current movement; these morons will accomplish nothing.
Her3tik, you have groupies.
Ego: +5

There are a number of ways, though my favourite is simply to take them by surprise. They're just walking down the street, minding their own business when suddenly, WHACK! Penis to the face.

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Re: Fun times in Syria
« Reply #49 on: August 31, 2013, 11:55:35 pm »
That's why leftists piss me off. More often then not, they have nothing to offer but platitudes, bleeding heart, feel good nonsense and pretty much everything else bar a practical solution or two, and then wonder why nobody takes them seriously. The idiots do more harm to their cause than the opposition ever could.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 01:06:38 am by Art Vandelay »

Offline Meshakhad

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Re: Fun times in Syria
« Reply #50 on: September 01, 2013, 12:43:12 am »
Every news article I've read, watched, or heard has made it clear that there's no interest in an invasion. What's being discussed is airstrikes like those conducted a few years ago in Libya.

President Obama said Saturday that the United States has decided to use military force against Syria, saying last week’s alleged chemical weapons attack there was “an attack on human dignity,” but that he has decided to seek congressional authorization for such a strike.

The announcement appeared to put off an imminent cruise missile attack on Syria and opens the door to what will almost certainly be a contentious and protracted debate.
The Washington Post

President Obama stunned the capital and paused his march to war on Saturday by asking Congress to give him authorization before he launches a limited military strike against the Syrian government in retaliation for a chemical weapons attack.
The New York Times

There's no plan to invade. These are just limited attacks that are supposed to show the world that the use of chemical weapons isn't condoned. The attacks probably won't do much of anything except deliver that message. I don't support it, but I understand the logic behind it. But damn people, pay attention to the news.

And what's not to say it will turn into a clusterfuck somewhere down the road where troops are sent in, and we're bogged down for years to come.
Seeing as Russia and Iran are threatening to engage us/Israel if we make a move, fuck yeah there are going to be problems. Iran may not be in the best shape (thanks to our sanctions), but Russia can still fuck us up bad.
Which is why we ought to get Turkey involved. Then if Russia tries anything, we lock down the Bosphorus.
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Offline Her3tiK

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Re: Fun times in Syria
« Reply #51 on: September 01, 2013, 12:56:13 am »
That's why leftists piss me off. More often then not, they have nothing to offer but platitudes, bleeding heard, feel good nonsense and pretty much everything else bar a practical solution or two, and then wonder why nobody takes them seriously. The idiots do more harm to their cause than the opposition ever could.
I am seriously tempted to attend the next rally so I can hijack the podium and point this out.
Her3tik, you have groupies.
Ego: +5

There are a number of ways, though my favourite is simply to take them by surprise. They're just walking down the street, minding their own business when suddenly, WHACK! Penis to the face.

Offline mythbuster43

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Re: Fun times in Syria
« Reply #52 on: September 01, 2013, 01:19:54 am »
Well here's a fun story that just happened. Me and my little brother had just pulled in to our driveway on the way back from going to pick up food for dinner and he gets oout to open the gate. Once he gets out I'm fiddling with buttons trying to figure out how to turn off the light I accidentally turned on earlier. In the process I hit a button that changes the radio station to Dan Savage's Savage Nation.

Oh boy, I think I lost noticeable brain mass from that minute of listening to it. He said Something to the effect of -

 "I've been watching the BBC and they're reporting what the American news stations won't, that US warships have been sighted of the coast of Iceland (I think that's what he said) on their way to Syria. Obama's going to strike Syria in the night while Americans are too busy partying to care!

Obama needs to be impeached. He should be dragged before the war crimes tribunal in the Hague! These are definitely war crimes he's committing! He's attacking Syria after they used chemicals once! The recent attack hasn't even been confirmed and it's probably the rebels!

This is nothing like the Holocaust. Even if it was it would be like bombing the trains of prisoners to stop it!"

At this point my little brother was getting back in the car and I promptly shut the radio off, both because I couldn't listen to it anymore and because I didn't want to expose my little brother to the concentrated stupid that was spewed forth.

The only positive thing I have to say about Michael Savage is that he at least also opposed the Iraq War, so he's consistent here.

Offline Meshakhad

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Re: Fun times in Syria
« Reply #53 on: September 01, 2013, 02:54:53 am »
On another forum, they had a fairly comprehensive poll regarding what to do in Syria. 10% thought we should intervene... to help Assad.

If I were a US soldier who was told that I would be going in to support the Assad regime, I'd quit immediately.
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Offline Valerius

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Re: Fun times in Syria
« Reply #54 on: September 01, 2013, 03:13:11 am »
The hell kinda forum was that?

Offline Meshakhad

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Re: Fun times in Syria
« Reply #55 on: September 01, 2013, 03:41:41 am »
www.nationstates.net

It's actually a fairly liberal forum. But during the summer, we get a deluge of right-wing nutjobs (probably just kids who think fascism is cool). Also, the forum population is very high, so we get people from all over the world.

There have been some posts on the old mainpage from there.
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Pardon the interruption, good sir/lady; there are aspects of your behavior that I find quite unbecoming, and I must insist most strenuously that I be permitted to assist in resolving these behaviors through the repeated high-velocity cranial introduction of particularly firm building materials.

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Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Re: Fun times in Syria
« Reply #56 on: September 01, 2013, 04:28:49 am »
It's quite easy to say we shouldn't intervene from the comfort of our air-conditioned homes and first world living conditions. It's quite easy for us to say "Stay out of it!" when we're not affected by that, only by going in. It's quite easy to say we should sit back when that's the beneficial option for us.


Just keep walking

It's simple to turn a blind eye to Syria. After all, they're far away. If we ignore it, Iran and Russia stay put, and no Americans die. After all, Americans are the only human beings that matter, right? Sure, those foreigners are dying, but they're not Americans, so who cares? It's the American lives that matter the most.

(click to show/hide)

Who cares if thousands of Syrians are dying? They have no affect on our lives, so why should we care? Besides, if we go in, we might anger Iran and Russia. We don't want to anger an oppressive dictatorship and what is quickly becoming another oppressive dictatorship in the vein of 1930s Germany. We should appease them, instead. That has a great historical track record! Yes, we should leave Syria to die. At least no Americans are dying.


Don't worry, he's not American!

For those who ate bricks as children, that was a pile of sarcasm. They are human fucking beings. Each day we leave other human beings to die because we only give a shit if the dead people are American is another day we are guilty of both murder and some of the most sickening racism in decades. We're leaving people to die for the crime of not being Americans. That's so much better than going to war, right?

The truth is, war is sometimes the answer. Besides for "Well, money" or "Well, they ain't 'Muricans!", the biggest argument I've heard for not getting involved is "Well, it will piss Russia off". Here's the thing. Appeasement does not work in the long run. If Obama does not get involved, he will be remembered as the Neville Chamberlain of the 21st Century. The man who could have saved millions, and stopped everything before it started, but he was too fucking scared of war to get involved, and wanted to try to create peace. Guess what? Russia isn't interested in peace. They want power, not peace. Do you think they give a rat's ass about what we want? They want a return to the days where they were the other superpower. They want to be on top of the world again. And they're being run by a charismatic leader who can convince the Russian people that the problem lies in minorities. Look at what they are doing to the gays. Do you think that's all that will happen? Fuck no. Call Godwin's law. As far as I'm concerned, that will just show you are a moron. Here's some history.

Quote from: Martin Niemöller
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

So, yes we should get involved. They are human beings. We have an arsenal big enough to fight the entire planet. We have an obligation to save those that are being murdered, or we are just as guilty of killing them. If Russia decides to escalate it, good. They're not ready yet. They will not win. And, it won't go nuclear. People aren't that insane, no matter how paranoid everyone is.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 04:30:33 am by PosthumanHeresy »
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Offline Valerius

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Re: Fun times in Syria
« Reply #57 on: September 01, 2013, 04:37:09 am »
Are you seriously trying to stir up more of the same shit you started in the "Fairly substantial massacre in Egypt." thread?

Offline PosthumanHeresy

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Re: Fun times in Syria
« Reply #58 on: September 01, 2013, 04:38:57 am »
Are you seriously trying to stir up more of the same shit you started in the "Fairly substantial massacre in Egypt." thread?
I apologize for having a differing opinion. I forgot that conformity is required. Wait, no, I don't give a shit if people don't like that I don't agree with them. Still, it's going to be seriously interesting to see how people can spin "All humans are equal" into being a racist statement.
What I used to think was me is just a fading memory. I looked him right in the eye and said "Goodbye".
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Together as one, against all others.
- Marilyn Manson, Running To The Edge of The World

Humanity does learn from history,
sadly, they're rarely the ones in power.

Quote from: Ben Kuchera
Life is too damned short for the concept of “guilty” pleasures to have any meaning.

Offline Valerius

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Re: Fun times in Syria
« Reply #59 on: September 01, 2013, 04:47:42 am »
Are you seriously trying to stir up more of the same shit you started in the "Fairly substantial massacre in Egypt." thread?
I apologize for having a differing opinion. I forgot that conformity is required. Wait, no, I don't give a shit if people don't like that I don't agree with them.

It's not that I don't like that you disagree with the majority opinion, it's that A) we just had this debate, and B) everyone else's criticisms apparently didn't change your views whatsoever, so trying to revive this freshly-dead debate serves no purpose other than stirring shit up purely for the sake of stirring shit up. I love heated debates (even if I don't participate much), but this I find to be childishly annoying.