Author Topic: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients  (Read 6173 times)

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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #75 on: January 03, 2014, 10:13:26 pm »
Would it change anything if I told you that her Down's Syndrome had no correlation with her death, and that even neurotypical cisgendered people sometimes die after an organ transplant that should've worked?

End result, even if the organ had gone to someone else, we still could've ended up with two dead bodies instead of one.
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Offline Shane for Wax

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #76 on: January 04, 2014, 11:19:37 am »
1. Snarky GIFs do not make a point. I'm kind of sick of seeing the same posters use them ad nauseam.
2. The MLP reference was necessary to say, "the world isn't sunshine and unicorn farts." What part of "PEOPLE WILL DIE," is so hard to understand? There isn't going to be a "happy ending" only a "less worse" one.
3. From Wikipedia,

Quote
Triage is the process of determining the priority of patients' treatments based on the severity of their condition. This rations patient treatment efficiently when resources are insufficient for all to be treated immediately... Because treatment is intentionally delayed or withheld from patients, advanced triage has ethical implications.

4. Do you know what it means? There is a bit of difference between "going to the hospital throwing up" and "I need one of a limited few kidneys." They could realistically treat everyone throwing up (unless it were life threatening and they had limited vaccines) your conjecture proves nothing.

Awwww poor you. Would you have preferred I used it in text instead? I could have. Here, instead of using the gif I'll do this: "An honest asshole, how nice." There we go.

Also your little 'definition' doesn't prove me wrong. Because they have a limited number of beda in the ER and they base who gets what based on severity. So don't give me that shit about how it's different from organs. It's still a limited resource that you have to decide who gets what with.

And again, I have a gif that would be quicker but I'll just do this: "Don't even answer. It doesn't matter. I'm leaving."

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« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 11:49:40 am by Commander Shepard »

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QueenofHearts

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #77 on: January 04, 2014, 03:50:37 pm »
Would it change anything if I told you that her Down's Syndrome had no correlation with her death, and that even neurotypical cisgendered people sometimes die after an organ transplant that should've worked?

End result, even if the organ had gone to someone else, we still could've ended up with two dead bodies instead of one.

But would it change ANYTHING at all for you to admit that she did get her transplant and therefore was not precluded as you've been saying? Even more damning, how about how they performed two transplants on her and not one? This proves everything I've been saying, that disabled people are NOT being precluded, they're just on a lower triage scale with a limited number of organs. A de facto exclusion, but not being excluded as you've attempted to portray.

As to her dying, I knew you'd look the story up and make that point. So, now that we know you are qualified to make medical judgments, why won't you answer my question on page 5?

And Shane, a limited number of beds is quite a stretch. Even including and accepting such, that does not mean that some people in your situation would live and die, as must be the case with this topic. And chill out, I've been civil with you in this debate, and if not civil, certainly MORE civil. So, yeah.

ETA: and as to the claim that I'm an "honest asshole" stop. I admit, this whole fucking process is inhumane, but the ADA has their procedure and it's their best attempt to make lemonade out of lemons. I don't want anyone to die, but in situations like this, people will die and there is nothing you, the doctors, or anyone can do about it. The worst thing I think we can do is to give these organs to people who don't have as strong a chance of survival, because then we have two dead instead of one. Sorry if situations demand such callousness.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 04:05:25 pm by QueenofHearts »

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #78 on: January 04, 2014, 06:44:31 pm »
Would it change anything if I told you that her Down's Syndrome had no correlation with her death, and that even neurotypical cisgendered people sometimes die after an organ transplant that should've worked?

End result, even if the organ had gone to someone else, we still could've ended up with two dead bodies instead of one.

But would it change ANYTHING at all for you to admit that she did get her transplant and therefore was not precluded as you've been saying?

Would it change ANYTHING at all that the fact that this still happens to other people based off of irrelevant disorders?

Seriously, you seem to believe that CDR Shepard and I are upset about this one person.  We're upset about all the OTHER PEOPLE this is happening to, as well.

Maybe if you made the effort to understand your opponent's arguments instead of being caught up in your own, we could get somewhere.

Also, I did answer your question.  Go back and read it again.
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Offline m52nickerson

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Re: Doctors Versus Disabled Patients
« Reply #79 on: January 05, 2014, 08:48:22 am »

Would it change ANYTHING at all that the fact that this still happens to other people based off of irrelevant disorders?

Seriously, you seem to believe that CDR Shepard and I are upset about this one person.  We're upset about all the OTHER PEOPLE this is happening to, as well.

Maybe if you made the effort to understand your opponent's arguments instead of being caught up in your own, we could get somewhere.

Also, I did answer your question.  Go back and read it again.

Pretty sure everyone understand what you and Shepard are saying.  What the both of you seem not to understand is that nothing is irrelevant when it comes to trying to decide who gets organs and who does not.  That decision very much means some people will live and some will die.  So these boards look at every statistic and possible complication they can and make the best decision they can.  It's not PC and it is not fair, but it is a situation in which nothing is fair.

It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. ~Macbeth