Author Topic: Why do modern audiences see homoeroticism everywhere?  (Read 6879 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: Why do modern audiences see homoeroticism everywhere?
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2014, 01:43:14 pm »
Why the hell did they turn Xerxes into Dhalsim from Street Fighter?

Offline Random Dinosaur

  • Bisex Rex
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2682
  • Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus
Re: Why do modern audiences see homoeroticism everywhere?
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2014, 01:55:39 pm »
A thread about perceived homoeroticism in popular entertainment and not a single mention of 300?  How does that even happen?

Though in the real life Spartan army homosexual sex with fellow soldiers was mandatory, so the homoeroticism probably isn't merely perceived it's probably intentional on the part of the film makers.

One of the funniest historical inaccuracies in 300 is the Spartans mocking the Athenians by basically calling them gay. Maybe that would work with the young men in the audience who can laugh along, but in reality same-sex relationships were extraordinarily common in Ancient Greece and the Spartans specifically viewed it as an important part of the military's social structure. Unlike some groups, however, the Spartans weren't dumb enough to try and structure their units around homosexual companionship among soldiers.

"Dumb enough"?

Following their defeat of Athens, Sparta was defeated by Thebes largely thanks to their legendary Sacred Band, leading to Thebes dominating much of Greece until the Macedonian conquest.

Offline chitoryu12

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 4009
  • Gender: Male
  • Tax-Payer Rhino
Re: Why do modern audiences see homoeroticism everywhere?
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2014, 02:12:09 pm »
A thread about perceived homoeroticism in popular entertainment and not a single mention of 300?  How does that even happen?

Though in the real life Spartan army homosexual sex with fellow soldiers was mandatory, so the homoeroticism probably isn't merely perceived it's probably intentional on the part of the film makers.

One of the funniest historical inaccuracies in 300 is the Spartans mocking the Athenians by basically calling them gay. Maybe that would work with the young men in the audience who can laugh along, but in reality same-sex relationships were extraordinarily common in Ancient Greece and the Spartans specifically viewed it as an important part of the military's social structure. Unlike some groups, however, the Spartans weren't dumb enough to try and structure their units around homosexual companionship among soldiers.

"Dumb enough"?

Following their defeat of Athens, Sparta was defeated by Thebes largely thanks to their legendary Sacred Band, leading to Thebes dominating much of Greece until the Macedonian conquest.

The Sacred Band was only 300 soldiers out of 8500 in the total army. The Thebans won the battle not because the Sacred Band was a bunch of superheroes, but because the Thebans used oblique order (focusing the majority of the push on a single flank of a battle) that was highly unusual at the time (being the first recorded instance of that tactic in history) and generally outmaneuvered the Spartans. The Sacred Band's contribution to the battle was primarily in holding back a section of the Spartan army that was being sent to stop the maneuver long enough for it to be completed. As important as they were, they didn't do much that was particularly special that a different group couldn't have done. They helped them succeed through freedom to maneuver out of the line into an interception.

The Athenians were upset at the Thebans beating the Spartans' collective ass, and the Sacred Band was destroyed almost at their next major battle, the Battle of Chaeronea. They were elite infantry, yes, but the decision to make it up entirely of homosexual couples did little or nothing to increase their effectiveness compared to their training and individual skill (the Sacred Band was chosen among soldiers purely by merit and ability, with no regards to social class).

They were arranged as pairs of lovers because of the logic that no man would want to abandon his lover or look like a coward in front of him; while this certainly kept them from retreating or surrendering, usually you WANT your elite units to retreat instead of letting themselves be ripped to shreds in a glorious but ultimately useless last stand. Despite the legends of groups like the 300 Spartans, small groups of soldiers facing down groups numbering in the thousands tend to get crushed and ground up pretty quickly just under the sheer weight of the imposing army without making a battle-turning dent on their way out.

The story of love conquering the notoriously rough and dangerous Spartans may make for a good story, but their contribution to the battle primarily came from training and selection for individual ability that made them actual elites.
Still can't think of a signature a year later.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8288
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why do modern audiences see homoeroticism everywhere?
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2014, 02:18:17 am »
300 was basically just a terrible rendition of Greek history, altogether.

Not just referring to the movie, by the way.

I think that someone said that it was basically a propaganda story told by that one surviving spartan. I also seem to remember that someone else DID claim that it was a historically accurate movie so either those two disagreed over what kind of movie they were making (or the latter was on drugs all the time) or one of those was just a viewer theory on TVTROPES.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Katsuro

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why do modern audiences see homoeroticism everywhere?
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2014, 03:11:54 am »
300 was basically just a terrible rendition of Greek history, altogether.

Not just referring to the movie, by the way.

I think that someone said that it was basically a propaganda story told by that one surviving spartan.

That's how I always thought it was supposed to be; it's that one guy's verison of the story told in such a way to get the others all amped up for a glorious mega fight.  I certainly never thought it was meant to be any kind of accurate history lesson.  The elephants and rihnos the size of buildings was the first clue really.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 03:21:07 am by Katsuro »

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: Why do modern audiences see homoeroticism everywhere?
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2014, 07:51:18 am »
300 was basically just a terrible rendition of Greek history, altogether.

Not just referring to the movie, by the way.

I think that someone said that it was basically a propaganda story told by that one surviving spartan. I also seem to remember that someone else DID claim that it was a historically accurate movie so either those two disagreed over what kind of movie they were making (or the latter was on drugs all the time) or one of those was just a viewer theory on TVTROPES.
That theory still has some holes in it.  For one, it doesn't explain why the Spartans would mock the Athenians for something they themselves took pride in doing.

Offline Katsuro

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why do modern audiences see homoeroticism everywhere?
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2014, 12:42:17 pm »
300 was basically just a terrible rendition of Greek history, altogether.

Not just referring to the movie, by the way.

I think that someone said that it was basically a propaganda story told by that one surviving spartan. I also seem to remember that someone else DID claim that it was a historically accurate movie so either those two disagreed over what kind of movie they were making (or the latter was on drugs all the time) or one of those was just a viewer theory on TVTROPES.
That theory still has some holes in it.  For one, it doesn't explain why the Spartans would mock the Athenians for something they themselves took pride in doing.

Coz the writer didn't think that bit through and/or didn't do enough research to know the Spartans engaged in hmosexual sex.

I don't think the idea that the whole thing is intended to be a deliberatly inaccurate story with exaggerations that's being told by that one suriving Sparatan can be disputed when at the end of the film you're out right shown it's a story being told by that Spartan (plus his voice narrates the movie) AND the elephants look like this -

It's why the elphants are that big - they're exaggerated by that Spartan in his telling of the story, the way people often exaggerate when recounting tales of something amazing they did.  If you know anyone who fishes or hunts you'll know all to well how people exaggerated the size of animals in their stories.

I doubt a movie/comic with 4+ story tall elephants, and in which a throne that probably weighs more than a house is being carried by only 4 people, was ever supposed to be historically accurate, call me crazy.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 12:49:12 pm by Katsuro »

Offline kefkaownsall

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3253
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why do modern audiences see homoeroticism everywhere?
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2014, 02:23:49 pm »
I would rather see a war movie that is realistic
anyways WE SEE QUEER BECAUSE WE ARE SICK OF  NOT SEEING GAY PEOPLE

Offline Witchyjoshy

  • SHITLORD THUNDERBASTARD!!
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9044
  • Gender: Male
  • Thinks he's a bard
Re: Why do modern audiences see homoeroticism everywhere?
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2014, 03:01:16 pm »
Kefka's pretty much got it right.

That and of course there's the people who fetishize homosexuality who want to see more of it.

As far as 300 goes, it doesn't have to be historically accurate, but the selective aspects of Spartan culture still bothers me.  You can tell fantastic tales without actually presenting contradictory information.

I just... hate 300.  The only good thing to come of it was the meme.
Mockery of ideas you don't comprehend or understand is the surest mark of unintelligence.

Even the worst union is better than the best Walmart.

Caladur's Active Character Sheet

Offline Feral Dog

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 916
  • Gender: Female
  • Caffeine, how I adore thee.
Re: Why do modern audiences see homoeroticism everywhere?
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2014, 06:13:40 pm »
As far as 300 goes, it doesn't have to be historically accurate, but the selective aspects of Spartan culture still bothers me.  You can tell fantastic tales without actually presenting contradictory information.

Yeah, when I pointed out to one of my friends that the wolf in the cave that the boy warrior killed way at the beginning would actually have been as many slaves as he could without getting caught, he got this deer-in-the-headlights look and tried to prove me wrong.

It was both sad and funny.
I crochet.

EDIT: Aaaand my 10,000th post is about fascism, Plato, and gay sex. This is clearly a great accomplishment.

Offline Witchyjoshy

  • SHITLORD THUNDERBASTARD!!
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9044
  • Gender: Male
  • Thinks he's a bard
Re: Why do modern audiences see homoeroticism everywhere?
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2014, 06:59:06 pm »
Now, if they had criticized the pederasty in Athens while, I dunno, showing Spartans being manly affectionate with each other, that would have been... better, I guess?

Although didn't Spartans also practice pederasty?

Or am I mixing stuff up again?
Mockery of ideas you don't comprehend or understand is the surest mark of unintelligence.

Even the worst union is better than the best Walmart.

Caladur's Active Character Sheet

Offline mellenORL

  • Pedal Pushing Puppy Peon
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3876
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why do modern audiences see homoeroticism everywhere?
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2014, 08:16:18 pm »
Spartans were all Buck Dichs. (Rammstein)
Quote from: Ultimate Chatbot That Totally Passes The Turing Test
I sympathize completely. However, to use against us. Let me ask you a troll. On the one who pulled it. But here's the question: where do I think it might as well have stepped out of all people would cling to a layman.

Offline chitoryu12

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 4009
  • Gender: Male
  • Tax-Payer Rhino
Re: Why do modern audiences see homoeroticism everywhere?
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2014, 08:33:41 pm »
Now, if they had criticized the pederasty in Athens while, I dunno, showing Spartans being manly affectionate with each other, that would have been... better, I guess?

Although didn't Spartans also practice pederasty?

Or am I mixing stuff up again?

The entirety of Ancient Greece practiced pederasty. In fact, Sparta was one of the first city states to formalize the practice. The only thing is that they had an absolute taboo on pederasty involving sex, and viewed the elder banging the younger similarly to incest.
Still can't think of a signature a year later.

Offline mellenORL

  • Pedal Pushing Puppy Peon
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3876
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why do modern audiences see homoeroticism everywhere?
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2014, 08:37:56 pm »
Chit, do you mean vaginal, anal or oral penetrating was the only taboo in ancient Greek pederasty?
Quote from: Ultimate Chatbot That Totally Passes The Turing Test
I sympathize completely. However, to use against us. Let me ask you a troll. On the one who pulled it. But here's the question: where do I think it might as well have stepped out of all people would cling to a layman.

Offline chitoryu12

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 4009
  • Gender: Male
  • Tax-Payer Rhino
Re: Why do modern audiences see homoeroticism everywhere?
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2014, 11:10:05 pm »
Chit, do you mean vaginal, anal or oral penetrating was the only taboo in ancient Greek pederasty?

I mean sex altogether. However, I was specifically only talking about Spartan taboos; not every Greek state had identical views on it.
Still can't think of a signature a year later.