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Author Topic: Democratic Primaries Thread  (Read 5573 times)

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Offline dpareja

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #270 on: June 17, 2020, 11:53:33 am »
"Conservatives fall in line, liberals fall in love." That and Bill Clinton's line about "herding cats".
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Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

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Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline DarkPhoenix

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #271 on: June 17, 2020, 10:27:46 pm »
Quote from: Askold on June 17, 2020, 03:10:12 am
I remember seeing attack ads on this forum like 10 years ago and even back then I said that in Finnish elections something like that would not be acceptable

Yeah, it's the same here in Canada.  The Conservatives have tried it for the last few PM elections and lost, repeatedly.  People here aren't interesting in hearing why the Liberal and NDP candidates suck with no mention of anything the PC's intend to do...
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #272 on: June 18, 2020, 12:27:37 am »
Quote from: Askold on June 17, 2020, 03:10:12 am
Honestly, one of the issues with politics in USA is that the GOP will always fall in line to support whoever is their candidate and no matter what their agenda is. Meanwhile, the Democrats have much more nuanced views and their voters have a spine so they may refuse to support people and causes that they dilike, but at the same time... The Democrats that do so, afford to do this because of the priviledged position. "What's that? The opponent is slowly removing rights from LGBT people? Sucks to be them I guess, I'm not gonna vote for someone just because they have a D next to their name."

And although for a foreigner like me, both parties have really toxic primaries (I remember seeing attack ads on this forum like 10 years ago and even back then I said that in Finnish elections something like that would not be acceptable) for some reason the Republicans will ignore these grievances as soon as the winner is decided while the Democrats will keep on splintering and losing. Don't the Democrats already hold a massive majority and only lose because of gerrymandering, voting suppression and them simply not voting? The first two issues aren't their fault but the last one is something that just seems so odd. All those people who refuse to vote for the "lesser evil" letting the country slide further and further right, despite that supposedly being against their interests.
The Democratic party has our Social Democrats and National Coalition inside the same party and the people in charge are mainly NCP. In a healthy system they would be two different parties. From SDP's perspective an unconditional unity means submitting to NCP so instead, they need to extract every concession they get before allying with NCP against the total nutjobs. From NCP's perspective you want people to see SDP's demands as unreasonable and yourself as the sensible ones to have as little pressure as possible to give those concessions.

From the perspective of those politicians at the top, SDP is actually more dangerous to your power than the opposing party. Losing to the other party means you will just try again in the next election. Losing the power struggle inside your own party means you lose the control of the party mechanisms and are in a much worse position to fight back.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #273 on: June 18, 2020, 12:42:06 am »
Of course, that makes the assumption that the other party will continue to actually respect things like "holding elections" (which already they only barely do).

But this is why, at an absolute bare minimum, the US needs proportional representation in its legislature. The problem is that if that happens, it's very likely that a) the fiscal progressives will win and b) the social conservatives will win, which is an outcome unacceptable to those currently in power, being generally opposed to both. (And yes, there are people who are fiscally progressive and socially conservative; Saagar Enjeti comes to mind as being roughly in that camp.)
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Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Vanto

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #274 on: June 18, 2020, 03:17:17 am »
Well, some GOP bigwigs have started a pro-Biden super PAC. Looks like Trump may be a uniter after all... just not in a way that actually helps him.
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Offline niam2023

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #275 on: June 18, 2020, 03:36:07 am »
Trump: Uniting the entire county in sheer disdain for him.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #276 on: June 18, 2020, 05:36:18 am »
Wasn't there a "Republicans for Hillary" group in 2016?
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Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline ironbite

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #277 on: June 18, 2020, 09:28:16 am »
Probably.  It just wasn't as vocal as now a days.

Ironbite-which makes sense with the state of everything going on.
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Offline Cloud3514

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #278 on: June 18, 2020, 04:38:48 pm »
I mean, they're still supporting the Republican party as a whole, so their support of Biden seems to be a case of "get rid of the idiot, we don't care about putting fascists in office if they're not loud and stupid."
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Offline niam2023

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #279 on: June 18, 2020, 07:04:49 pm »
Or they have some degree of reasoning for the future. After all, with Trump swinging further and further into the alt-right's wheelhouse, and how incredibly successful the alt-right attempted politicians were, they know that the so called dissident right is a loss. More or less, they want to (most likely unsuccessfully) attempt to save the party from being stained by Trump.
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