Author Topic: California's Prison Sterilizations  (Read 13564 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Second Coming of Madman

  • Some of Internet Jesus
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1543
  • Gender: Male
  • Cisscum Internationale Society
California's Prison Sterilizations
« on: June 21, 2014, 06:09:01 pm »
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/21/women-in-ca-prisons-forced-to-undergo-illegal-coercive-sterilizations-audit/


This isn't a violation of prisoner rights?

This is eugenics-like actions by a state's government,  a wholly unacceptable course of action in the 21st century. In addition, these prisoners are mostly below high school reading level, clearly preventing from them from understanding the documents using.

All in all, a despicable violation of human rights and a chilling course of actions by the Californian prison system.

@KanzlerImaginos - Feel free to drop me a line.

Quote
Toddlers get too much exercise, they wouldn't make good veal.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: California's Prison Sterilizations
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2014, 06:15:53 pm »
This is horrible.

Offline I am lizard

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3545
    • https://www.instagram.com/p/9SIHifrULJ/
Re: California's Prison Sterilizations
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2014, 06:19:44 pm »
Why stop there California? Next step should be to construct extermination camps, we can't have degenerate scum walking around! We must cleanse this land of the unwanted!

Ok, sarcasm aside, why the fuck is eugenics or whatever the hell this is still a thing?
Or was that even the point of this? Was this just another chapter in Americas long quest to treat are prisoners as horribly as possible because  somehow that'll fix crime?

Offline Ironchew

  • Official Edgelord
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1888
  • Gender: Male
  • The calm, intellectual Trotsky-like Trotskyist
Re: California's Prison Sterilizations
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2014, 06:40:18 pm »
Ok, sarcasm aside, why the fuck is eugenics or whatever the hell this is still a thing?
Or was that even the point of this? Was this just another chapter in Americas long quest to treat are prisoners as horribly as possible because  somehow that'll fix crime?

Lots of people in the United States still believe in eugenics. There's a vocal plurality that uses "personal responsibility" as an excuse to justify punishing groups that they deem inferior, and that inferiority must be genetic, despite the complete inability of eugenicists to find the genetic markers for criminality, race, etc.

If you think eugenics is a mode of thinking well on its way out, you haven't been paying attention to right-wing politics.
Consumption is not a politically combative act — refraining from consumption even less so.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: California's Prison Sterilizations
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2014, 06:45:01 pm »
Ok, sarcasm aside, why the fuck is eugenics or whatever the hell this is still a thing?
Or was that even the point of this? Was this just another chapter in Americas long quest to treat are prisoners as horribly as possible because  somehow that'll fix crime?

Lots of people in the United States still believe in eugenics. There's a vocal plurality that uses "personal responsibility" as an excuse to justify punishing groups that they deem inferior, and that inferiority must be genetic, despite the complete inability of eugenicists to find the genetic markers for criminality, race, etc.

If you think eugenics is a mode of thinking well on its way out, you haven't been paying attention to right-wing politics.
Left-wingers do it too.  Some of their arguments for abortion seem uncomfortably eugenicist.

Offline Second Coming of Madman

  • Some of Internet Jesus
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1543
  • Gender: Male
  • Cisscum Internationale Society
Re: California's Prison Sterilizations
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2014, 06:48:05 pm »
Ok, sarcasm aside, why the fuck is eugenics or whatever the hell this is still a thing?
Or was that even the point of this? Was this just another chapter in Americas long quest to treat are prisoners as horribly as possible because  somehow that'll fix crime?

Lots of people in the United States still believe in eugenics. There's a vocal plurality that uses "personal responsibility" as an excuse to justify punishing groups that they deem inferior, and that inferiority must be genetic, despite the complete inability of eugenicists to find the genetic markers for criminality, race, etc.

If you think eugenics is a mode of thinking well on its way out, you haven't been paying attention to right-wing politics.
Conservative protestants have historically opposed to eugenics, who viewed it as a threat to reliance on God as a cure for social ills.
@KanzlerImaginos - Feel free to drop me a line.

Quote
Toddlers get too much exercise, they wouldn't make good veal.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: California's Prison Sterilizations
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2014, 06:48:52 pm »
Ok, sarcasm aside, why the fuck is eugenics or whatever the hell this is still a thing?
Or was that even the point of this? Was this just another chapter in Americas long quest to treat are prisoners as horribly as possible because  somehow that'll fix crime?

Lots of people in the United States still believe in eugenics. There's a vocal plurality that uses "personal responsibility" as an excuse to justify punishing groups that they deem inferior, and that inferiority must be genetic, despite the complete inability of eugenicists to find the genetic markers for criminality, race, etc.

If you think eugenics is a mode of thinking well on its way out, you haven't been paying attention to right-wing politics.
Conservative protestants have historically opposed to eugenics, who viewed it as a threat to reliance on God as a cure for social ills.
Yeah, eugenics was originally done in the name of progress.

Offline mellenORL

  • Pedal Pushing Puppy Peon
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3876
  • Gender: Female
Re: California's Prison Sterilizations
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2014, 11:57:45 pm »
Dr. Heinrich's quote made him sound precisely like a Tea Party cunt of the "The money should go to me, a deserving SAWB, not the gubmint Welfare system". He charged typical prices for the procedures he performed, and exonerated himself by saying he was saving the tax payer more than that by pre-empting the addition of children to the welfare rolls.
Quote from: Ultimate Chatbot That Totally Passes The Turing Test
I sympathize completely. However, to use against us. Let me ask you a troll. On the one who pulled it. But here's the question: where do I think it might as well have stepped out of all people would cling to a layman.

Offline Cataclysm

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2458
Re: California's Prison Sterilizations
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2014, 03:20:01 pm »
I have no problems with this. If they don't want to be sterilized they shouldn't be committing crimes. It's no bigger a violation of their human rights than locking them in a metal cage for several months or years.

Ok, sarcasm aside, why the fuck is eugenics or whatever the hell this is still a thing?
Or was that even the point of this? Was this just another chapter in Americas long quest to treat are prisoners as horribly as possible because  somehow that'll fix crime?
Lots of people in the United States still believe in eugenics. There's a vocal plurality that uses "personal responsibility" as an excuse to justify punishing groups that they deem inferior, and that inferiority must be genetic, despite the complete inability of eugenicists to find the genetic markers for criminality, race, etc.

You don't have to believe that criminality is genetic in order to know criminals probably wouldn't make good parents.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

Quote
Commenter Brendan Rizzo is an American (still living there) who really, really hates America. He used to make posts defending his country from anti-American attacks but got fed up with it all.

Offline Witchyjoshy

  • SHITLORD THUNDERBASTARD!!
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9044
  • Gender: Male
  • Thinks he's a bard
Re: California's Prison Sterilizations
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2014, 04:00:03 pm »
I have no problems with this. If they don't want to be sterilized they shouldn't be committing crimes. It's no bigger a violation of their human rights than locking them in a metal cage for several months or years.

Ok, sarcasm aside, why the fuck is eugenics or whatever the hell this is still a thing?
Or was that even the point of this? Was this just another chapter in Americas long quest to treat are prisoners as horribly as possible because  somehow that'll fix crime?
Lots of people in the United States still believe in eugenics. There's a vocal plurality that uses "personal responsibility" as an excuse to justify punishing groups that they deem inferior, and that inferiority must be genetic, despite the complete inability of eugenicists to find the genetic markers for criminality, race, etc.

You don't have to believe that criminality is genetic in order to know criminals probably wouldn't make good parents.

I want to respectfully disagree, but nothing you said was worth respecting in the slightest.  So, pardon me, but I'm going to call out your bullshit.

First of all, you really think an invasive, permanent, unreversable surgery is equivalent to being in prison?  Your sense of perspective isn't just buggered, it's non-existent.  The two are in no way equivalent.

Second of all, prisoners do have rights.  In fact, they should have rights.  Dehumanizing any group of people for any reason is a sign of many terrible things about the person or people doing the dehumanizing.  A society that dehumanizes criminals is a society that is quickly going down the tube - history has proven this.

Thirdly, yes, criminals can be good parents.  Does it surprise you?  It shouldn't.  All kinds of people end up criminals for one reason or another.

And finally, the biggest problem with the load of horse shit you just spewed into this thread is that the primary purpose of prison is to reform.  Keeping harmful elements out of society is a close secondary purpose.

Not to mention, WRONGFUL CONVICTIONS HAPPEN.

Let me ask you this - would you support prisons cutting off fingers and toes of the criminals, just because they are criminals?  Would you support them pulling kidneys out of people, leaving them with just one?  How about cutting out eyes, or breaking their eardrums, or any other such thing?

If you said "no" to any of the above, then you are a hypocrite for condoning them doing this, which is just as bad.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 04:01:36 pm by Magus Silveresti »
Mockery of ideas you don't comprehend or understand is the surest mark of unintelligence.

Even the worst union is better than the best Walmart.

Caladur's Active Character Sheet

Offline Nemo

  • Pope
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
Re: California's Prison Sterilizations
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2014, 05:18:22 pm »
First off, to those arguing over whether the left or right supports eugenics, I won't deny that the early supporters of it were leaning towards the left. Then again, how many right wingers do I hear today moaning about how certain people reproduce faster than their demographics do? So, it can go either way.

I'll freely admit: there are probably cases where I would agree that maybe some people shouldn't be reproducing. Not because of genetics, mind you, but because they would make terrible parents, and would add a lot of burdens to an already strained welfare system. But let's abandon the realm of theory, and talk about reality. In reality, many people in the prison system are in there for victimless crimes, if they were rightly convicted at all. Mass sterilization also assumes that prisons are incapable of rehabilitation. They can do it. Prisons are NOT rehabilitating, but they could if society would hold them accountable to that goal, but the topic of for profit prisons is another issue.

So, no, I don't support this.
"If it's white or Jewish then they're criminals, if it's two brown people killing each other ... meh, that's their culture and we should respect it ... cultural relativists should be ashamed of themselves." - Faisal Saeed Al Mutar

Offline Cerim Treascair

  • My Love Is Lunar
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3092
  • Gender: Male
  • Get me my arbalest... explosive bolts, please.
Re: California's Prison Sterilizations
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2014, 06:35:46 pm »
Y'know, it's time I stepped in here.

I'm a criminal.  Got the conviction and everything, back when I was 13.  I've done terrible things in my life.  Tell me, Cata, should I be/have been sterilized against my will?  Do I deserve to never have children, my stance to not have them at this point in time notwithstanding? How about the guy that murdered my uncle when I was 7? How about the drunk driver that killed my first girlfriend when I was 12? They deserve to not have kids?

Who in the name of the darkness do you fucking think you are, shitstain? who are you to say that they deserve to never have kids? Do you SERIOUSLY think that there is NO chance for rehabilitation? no chance for redemption in life? I'm living fucking proof that things can change a person, both for better and worse.  You? You seem determined to advocate everything from murder to genocide, because they committed a crime.

Go fuck yourself.
There is light and darkness in the world, to be sure.  However, there's no harm to be had in walking in the shade or shadows.

Formerly Priestling

"I don't give a fuck about race...I'm white, I'm American, but that shit don't matter.  I'm human."

Offline Ironchew

  • Official Edgelord
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1888
  • Gender: Male
  • The calm, intellectual Trotsky-like Trotskyist
Re: California's Prison Sterilizations
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2014, 07:19:39 pm »
Thread justice has been delivered.

I may not always agree with Cerim, but this thread demanded that someone represent the other side and he delivered.

I have no problems with this. If they don't want to be sterilized they shouldn't be committing crimes. It's no bigger a violation of their human rights than locking them in a metal cage for several months or years.

Ok, sarcasm aside, why the fuck is eugenics or whatever the hell this is still a thing?
Or was that even the point of this? Was this just another chapter in Americas long quest to treat are prisoners as horribly as possible because  somehow that'll fix crime?
Lots of people in the United States still believe in eugenics. There's a vocal plurality that uses "personal responsibility" as an excuse to justify punishing groups that they deem inferior, and that inferiority must be genetic, despite the complete inability of eugenicists to find the genetic markers for criminality, race, etc.

You don't have to believe that criminality is genetic in order to know criminals probably wouldn't make good parents.

I want to respectfully disagree, but nothing you said was worth respecting in the slightest.  So, pardon me, but I'm going to call out your bullshit.

First of all, you really think an invasive, permanent, unreversable surgery is equivalent to being in prison?  Your sense of perspective isn't just buggered, it's non-existent.  The two are in no way equivalent.

Second of all, prisoners do have rights.  In fact, they should have rights.  Dehumanizing any group of people for any reason is a sign of many terrible things about the person or people doing the dehumanizing.  A society that dehumanizes criminals is a society that is quickly going down the tube - history has proven this.

Thirdly, yes, criminals can be good parents.  Does it surprise you?  It shouldn't.  All kinds of people end up criminals for one reason or another.

And finally, the biggest problem with the load of horse shit you just spewed into this thread is that the primary purpose of prison is to reform.  Keeping harmful elements out of society is a close secondary purpose.

Not to mention, WRONGFUL CONVICTIONS HAPPEN.

Let me ask you this - would you support prisons cutting off fingers and toes of the criminals, just because they are criminals?  Would you support them pulling kidneys out of people, leaving them with just one?  How about cutting out eyes, or breaking their eardrums, or any other such thing?

If you said "no" to any of the above, then you are a hypocrite for condoning them doing this, which is just as bad.

Besides the fact that there are all sorts of downsides to cruel punishment, the positive claim that sterilization is necessary to bring crime down just isn't true. Criminality is not a trait that can be flushed out of a population; even if a genocidal society were to try, they would not have addressed the reason those crimes happened in the first place and that society would stratify itself again. Analogously, getting rid of all the "undesirable poors" while keeping our socioeconomic system unchanged won't solve poverty, and there's plenty of economic evidence that any attempts to do so would create a new impoverished population.

There is very little in our laws and criminal justice system that attempts to tackle the root issues of why people are motivated to commit crimes. Too much of it seems to be our outmoded primate reaction of vengeance and punishment of the other.
Consumption is not a politically combative act — refraining from consumption even less so.

Offline Canadian Mojo

  • Don't Steal Him. We Need Him. He Makes Us Cool!
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1770
  • Gender: Male
  • Υπό σκιή
Re: California's Prison Sterilizations
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2014, 07:38:34 pm »
Quote
...specifically targeting those deemed likely to return to prison after they were released.

According to the audit, the typical sterilized inmate had previously been pregnant five or more times, with most women testing below high school reading proficiency levels, with one third of those reading below sixth-grade level.

I can see where the motivation is coming from; they are targeting the ones they feel are irredeemable and are going to inevitably add to the burden of an already strained system. That makes it a bit better than a 'fuck all the criminals' attitude, but that doesn't make it right.

Offline Witchyjoshy

  • SHITLORD THUNDERBASTARD!!
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9044
  • Gender: Male
  • Thinks he's a bard
Re: California's Prison Sterilizations
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2014, 07:40:41 pm »
Besides the fact that there are all sorts of downsides to cruel punishment, the positive claim that sterilization is necessary to bring crime down just isn't true. Criminality is not a trait that can be flushed out of a population; even if a genocidal society were to try, they would not have addressed the reason those crimes happened in the first place and that society would stratify itself again. Analogously, getting rid of all the "undesirable poors" while keeping our socioeconomic system unchanged won't solve poverty, and there's plenty of economic evidence that any attempts to do so would create a new impoverished population.

Exactly!  I don't understand why so few people seem to understand this.  It's like they think the best way to solve poverty is to punish people for being poor, and then are completely surprised when they become criminals.

Especially when the crime is doing drugs.

Quote
There is very little in our laws and criminal justice system that attempts to tackle the root issues of why people are motivated to commit crimes. Too much of it seems to be our outmoded primate reaction of vengeance and punishment of the other.

And BAM!  You hit the nail right on the head.  So hard, in fact, that I think this deserves to be sigged.
Mockery of ideas you don't comprehend or understand is the surest mark of unintelligence.

Even the worst union is better than the best Walmart.

Caladur's Active Character Sheet