Author Topic: Britain Vs. Argentina: Is on the verge of an actual Royal Rumble  (Read 13528 times)

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Offline Scotsgit

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Re: Britain Vs. Argentina: Is on the verge of an actual Royal Rumble
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2012, 10:19:36 pm »
Quote
with Britain accusing Argentina of “colonialism” for pursuing its claim.

Funny.

The fact is that the Falklands matters not a whit, not to either side. It has no strategic importance to the British. It has no economic importance to the Argentinians. It makes slightly more geographic sense for the island to be Argentinian than British. And if the population (of a few hundred) really wish to be British, they have every right to sell their property at market rates and take a plane ride- the Argentinian air force would probably provide the trip free, even.

The only real importance those damn islands have is electoral.

Eh?  You're saying they should leave?  Why?

Because Argentina, apparently, REALLY REALLY wants the Falkland Islands. To stop them getting it cost lives- like, thousands of lives. The benefit of them not getting it was... negligible. The convenience of a few hundred people? Any more than that?

So?  I REALLY, REALLY want £10 Million, doesn't mean I'm going to have it.  Just because a country wants something doesn't mean they should have it.  George W wanted to have Iraq's oil supply, does that mean (by your logic) he should have had it?

The benefit of Argentina not getting the Falklands was not negligible:  Losing the war was what toppled the military Junta, an horrific organisation that costs thousands (probably a lot more as no-one knows the final tally) of Argentine lives, mostly young people who had done no wrong.  Please tell Las Madres De La Playa de Mayo that the end of the Junta was negligible.

Yes there are only a few hundred people living on the Falklands - so what?  If there was only one person and he or she wanted the lands to remain British, then so be it.  What the people who actually live there want should surely be the driving force over the future of the Islands, not what others want, particularly not an Argentine president who's trying desperately to cling to power and is using this as a smoke screen to disguise how badly things are going for her at home.
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: Britain Vs. Argentina: Is on the verge of an actual Royal Rumble
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2012, 10:34:52 pm »
Quote
with Britain accusing Argentina of “colonialism” for pursuing its claim.

Funny.

The fact is that the Falklands matters not a whit, not to either side. It has no strategic importance to the British. It has no economic importance to the Argentinians. It makes slightly more geographic sense for the island to be Argentinian than British. And if the population (of a few hundred) really wish to be British, they have every right to sell their property at market rates and take a plane ride- the Argentinian air force would probably provide the trip free, even.

The only real importance those damn islands have is electoral.

Eh?  You're saying they should leave?  Why?

Because Argentina, apparently, REALLY REALLY wants the Falkland Islands. To stop them getting it cost lives- like, thousands of lives. The benefit of them not getting it was... negligible. The convenience of a few hundred people? Any more than that?
Yes there are only a few hundred people living on the Falklands - so what?  If there was only one person and he or she wanted the lands to remain British, then so be it.

Let's say one Brit lived on the island. How many British and Argentinian sailors, soldiers and airmen (airpeople?) would you be willing to sacrifice so that he or she were able to live there instead of in a nice flat in London? Two? Fifty? A million? Where's the limit?

Let's make a cost-benefit analysis. How many lives is the convenience of the Falklanders worth? Personally, I'd say zero.

Quote
The benefit of Argentina not getting the Falklands was not negligible:  Losing the war was what toppled the military Junta, an horrific organisation that costs thousands (probably a lot more as no-one knows the final tally) of Argentine lives, mostly young people who had done no wrong.  Please tell Las Madres De La Playa de Mayo that the end of the Junta was negligible.

Perhaps- perhaps- that might have been a reasonable justification for the conflict, if it had been a predictable consequence of it. As I see it, the Brits got lucky. A war is just as likely to end civil unrest as everyone rallies around symbols of nation unity and patriotism as it is to aid a long-term non-violent movement.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: Britain Vs. Argentina: Is on the verge of an actual Royal Rumble
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2012, 11:00:50 pm »
Except...these people don't want to live in a nice apartment in London.  they want to live in the Falkland's.  So going to war over a tiny spit of land just because you want it is kinda...stupid.

Ironbite-really stupid.

Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: Britain Vs. Argentina: Is on the verge of an actual Royal Rumble
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2012, 11:23:33 pm »
Except...these people don't want to live in a nice apartment in London.  they want to live in the Falkland's.  So going to war over a tiny spit of land just because you want it is kinda...stupid.

Ironbite-really stupid.

I'm not saying the Argentinians are right, I'm saying Thatcher and any other British Prime Minister who wants to contest Argentina's bullshit claim, is wrong.
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR

Art Vandelay

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Re: Britain Vs. Argentina: Is on the verge of an actual Royal Rumble
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2012, 11:35:29 pm »
Except...these people don't want to live in a nice apartment in London.  they want to live in the Falkland's.  So going to war over a tiny spit of land just because you want it is kinda...stupid.

Ironbite-really stupid.

I'm not saying the Argentinians are right, I'm saying Thatcher and any other British Prime Minister who wants to contest Argentina's bullshit claim, is wrong.

I know this may seem like a crazy idea to you, but it seems to me that the fault there lies not with the Brits for not putting up with Argentina's bullshit, but Argentina for trying to grab territory that they have no claim to.

Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: Britain Vs. Argentina: Is on the verge of an actual Royal Rumble
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2012, 12:03:34 am »
Except...these people don't want to live in a nice apartment in London.  they want to live in the Falkland's.  So going to war over a tiny spit of land just because you want it is kinda...stupid.

Ironbite-really stupid.

I'm not saying the Argentinians are right, I'm saying Thatcher and any other British Prime Minister who wants to contest Argentina's bullshit claim, is wrong.

I know this may seem like a crazy idea to you, but it seems to me that the fault there lies not with the Brits for not putting up with Argentina's bullshit, but Argentina for trying to grab territory that they have no claim to.

I identify more with the British than the Argentinians.
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

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Offline Scotsgit

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Re: Britain Vs. Argentina: Is on the verge of an actual Royal Rumble
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2012, 02:26:09 am »
Let's say one Brit lived on the island. How many British and Argentinian sailors, soldiers and airmen (airpeople?) would you be willing to sacrifice so that he or she were able to live there instead of in a nice flat in London? Two? Fifty? A million? Where's the limit?

Let's make a cost-benefit analysis. How many lives is the convenience of the Falklanders worth? Personally, I'd say zero.

But these people don't want to live in London, they want to live where they've lived all their lives:  To ensure their safety, what would you do?

To put this another way, if the another country invaded Australia, wouldn't you want someone to stop them, or are you saying that it's not worth it?
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Offline Scotsgit

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Re: Britain Vs. Argentina: Is on the verge of an actual Royal Rumble
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2012, 02:28:30 am »
Except...these people don't want to live in a nice apartment in London.  they want to live in the Falkland's.  So going to war over a tiny spit of land just because you want it is kinda...stupid.

Ironbite-really stupid.

I'm not saying the Argentinians are right, I'm saying Thatcher and any other British Prime Minister who wants to contest Argentina's bullshit claim, is wrong.

Well if their claim is bullshit, how can a British Prime Minister who wants to contest it be wrong?
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: Britain Vs. Argentina: Is on the verge of an actual Royal Rumble
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2012, 02:40:07 am »
Let's say one Brit lived on the island. How many British and Argentinian sailors, soldiers and airmen (airpeople?) would you be willing to sacrifice so that he or she were able to live there instead of in a nice flat in London? Two? Fifty? A million? Where's the limit?

Let's make a cost-benefit analysis. How many lives is the convenience of the Falklanders worth? Personally, I'd say zero.

But these people don't want to live in London, they want to live where they've lived all their lives:  To ensure their safety, what would you do?

To put this another way, if the another country invaded Australia, wouldn't you want someone to stop them, or are you saying that it's not worth it?

If you've got some alternative country where all 20 million of us could all live, I'd be perfectly happy to fly there free of charge. So long as I got paid for my property, of course.

In practice, there is no feasible way of moving a major country's population in case of invasion, and they would have to stick around and endure tyranny or whatever. But that is not an impossibility in this case. The alternatives are not tyranny or freedom, they're 2000 flights to London or thousands dead in a war (and Thatcher's re election, of course).
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: Britain Vs. Argentina: Is on the verge of an actual Royal Rumble
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2012, 02:41:00 am »
Except...these people don't want to live in a nice apartment in London.  they want to live in the Falkland's.  So going to war over a tiny spit of land just because you want it is kinda...stupid.

Ironbite-really stupid.

I'm not saying the Argentinians are right, I'm saying Thatcher and any other British Prime Minister who wants to contest Argentina's bullshit claim, is wrong.

Well if their claim is bullshit, how can a British Prime Minister who wants to contest it be wrong?

The British claim is equally bullshit, and the cost of contesting the Argentinian claim is not worth the probable benefit.
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR

Offline Yla

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Re: Britain Vs. Argentina: Is on the verge of an actual Royal Rumble
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2012, 06:12:03 am »
Because Argentina, apparently, REALLY REALLY wants the Falkland Islands. To stop them getting it cost lives- like, thousands of lives. The benefit of them not getting it was... negligible. The convenience of a few hundred people? Any more than that?
So they should just give in to a bully's demands?

Newsflash for you, forced deportation is not a pleasant thing, even if you get a new place to live.
That said, I've stopped trying to anticipate what people around here want a while ago, I've found it makes things smoother.
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: Britain Vs. Argentina: Is on the verge of an actual Royal Rumble
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2012, 06:30:36 am »
Because Argentina, apparently, REALLY REALLY wants the Falkland Islands. To stop them getting it cost lives- like, thousands of lives. The benefit of them not getting it was... negligible. The convenience of a few hundred people? Any more than that?
So they should just give in to a bully's demands?

Newsflash for you, forced deportation is not a pleasant thing, even if you get a new place to live.

It's not forced. If they wanted to stay under Argentine rule, they'd have every right. But there's no reason to sacrifice potentially thousands of lives for the convenience of a handful.
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR

Art Vandelay

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Re: Britain Vs. Argentina: Is on the verge of an actual Royal Rumble
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2012, 06:53:23 am »
It's not forced. If they wanted to stay under Argentine rule, they'd have every right. But there's no reason to sacrifice potentially thousands of lives for the convenience of a handful.
As longs as the Brits and Falkland Islanders are willing (and Argentina isn't going to back down), then there's no reason not to. Besides, if the previous war is anything to go by (and it most likely is, considering that the British military is still leaps and bounds ahead of its Argentine counterpart in terms of quality), the lion's share of the losses will be on the Argentine side.

Regarding your claims on the supposed worthlessness of the islands, you're no doubt aware of the recent discovery of substantial offshore oil reserves in South America, right? Considering a large source of disagreement between Argentina and Britain over the issue is territorial rights on the surrounding waters and the seabed in particular, there's a pretty good chance that there could be oil in the area.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 07:01:44 am by Art Vandelay »

Offline m52nickerson

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Re: Britain Vs. Argentina: Is on the verge of an actual Royal Rumble
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2012, 07:41:07 am »
It's not forced. If they wanted to stay under Argentine rule, they'd have every right. But there's no reason to sacrifice potentially thousands of lives for the convenience of a handful.

I bet those handful would think differently.  I would also bet the soildiers on the Brittish side would disagree with you also.
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Offline Yla

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Re: Britain Vs. Argentina: Is on the verge of an actual Royal Rumble
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2012, 07:54:15 am »
Because Argentina, apparently, REALLY REALLY wants the Falkland Islands. To stop them getting it cost lives- like, thousands of lives. The benefit of them not getting it was... negligible. The convenience of a few hundred people? Any more than that?
So they should just give in to a bully's demands?

Newsflash for you, forced deportation is not a pleasant thing, even if you get a new place to live.

It's not forced. If they wanted to stay under Argentine rule, they'd have every right. But there's no reason to sacrifice potentially thousands of lives for the convenience of a handful.
You have a curious definition of forced. It's "Move or become an Argentinian".

Let's put it this way. There are a few millions of people living on Taiwan. The PRC really, really wants to have that island. Why don't we just move the inhabitants to <some other place>, and let the continental Chinese have it?
That said, I've stopped trying to anticipate what people around here want a while ago, I've found it makes things smoother.
For I was an hungred, and ye told me to pull myself up by my bootstraps: I was thirsty, and ye demanded payment for the privilege of thine urine: I was a stranger, and ye deported me: naked, and ye arrested me for indecency.