Author Topic: Government Threatened Foley Family Over Ransom Payments  (Read 3081 times)

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Offline Dakota Bob

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Government Threatened Foley Family Over Ransom Payments
« on: September 12, 2014, 02:27:55 pm »
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So the family of that recently beheaded journalist was threatened by the government not to pay them fines. One doesn't want terrorists to get more money, but would people have been more willing to follow along Obama's new bombing campaign if he had not been beheaded?

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Government Threatened Foley Family Over Ransom Payments
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2014, 02:32:21 pm »
I can't believe the government prioritized a fucking deserter over James Foley.

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Re: Government Threatened Foley Family Over Ransom Payments
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2014, 08:00:36 pm »
I can't believe the government prioritized a fucking deserter over James Foley.

Ah, the exact same rhetoric as the right wing. There is no evidence that Bergdahl engaged in any such dishonor. Welcome to the new Dreyfuss affair, where evidence is pulled out of a hat.
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Offline Random Dinosaur

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Re: Government Threatened Foley Family Over Ransom Payments
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2014, 08:03:41 pm »
It's still illegal to give money to terrorists, regardless of the reason. Paying ransoms only encourages further kidnappings.

Offline Mechtaur

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Re: Government Threatened Foley Family Over Ransom Payments
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2014, 08:09:26 pm »
I can't believe the government prioritized a fucking deserter over James Foley.

Yes, because his life to his family is so lesser in value.

How about we focus on the fact that the shiteaters who are doing the killing are doing so instead of who got saved?

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Government Threatened Foley Family Over Ransom Payments
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2014, 08:12:32 pm »
You know, I've heard somebody suggest that we bury dead ISIL members with pigs to deny them the martyrdom they so desire.  I'm not sure that's such a good idea.

Offline Mechtaur

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Re: Government Threatened Foley Family Over Ransom Payments
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2014, 08:53:14 pm »
You know, I've heard somebody suggest that we bury dead ISIL members with pigs to deny them the martyrdom they so desire.  I'm not sure that's such a good idea.

That whole idea has been thrown around every time someone fought against muslims. It is also really easy to see as stupid if you have even a cursory knowledge of Islam, since the "touching unclean items/food" doesn't count against you if it was against your will (such as this case) or as a last resort (for instance, if someone was trapped on a deserted island with only pork to eat, they would be permitted to eat it).

That isn't even getting into the whole morality of disrespecting the dead in this case. I'm very sure it isn't a good idea.

Offline Askold

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Re: Government Threatened Foley Family Over Ransom Payments
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2014, 11:27:25 pm »
You know, I've heard somebody suggest that we bury dead ISIL members with pigs to deny them the martyrdom they so desire.  I'm not sure that's such a good idea.

That whole idea has been thrown around every time someone fought against muslims. It is also really easy to see as stupid if you have even a cursory knowledge of Islam, since the "touching unclean items/food" doesn't count against you if it was against your will (such as this case) or as a last resort (for instance, if someone was trapped on a deserted island with only pork to eat, they would be permitted to eat it).

That isn't even getting into the whole morality of disrespecting the dead in this case. I'm very sure it isn't a good idea.

Well, the odds are that muslims would be horrifies by that treatment anyway as it would be an insult to their religion. Then again I don't see how that would not lead to them being even angrier and turning the moderate muslims also against whoever did that.

Murders, torture and desecrating bodies has not made USA back out from the fight and swear they will never again resist Islamic terrorists so I don't see how it would work on the other side either.

(Not to mention how wrong it would be.)
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Offline Mechtaur

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Re: Government Threatened Foley Family Over Ransom Payments
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2014, 11:43:25 pm »
You know, I've heard somebody suggest that we bury dead ISIL members with pigs to deny them the martyrdom they so desire.  I'm not sure that's such a good idea.

That whole idea has been thrown around every time someone fought against muslims. It is also really easy to see as stupid if you have even a cursory knowledge of Islam, since the "touching unclean items/food" doesn't count against you if it was against your will (such as this case) or as a last resort (for instance, if someone was trapped on a deserted island with only pork to eat, they would be permitted to eat it).

That isn't even getting into the whole morality of disrespecting the dead in this case. I'm very sure it isn't a good idea.

Well, the odds are that muslims would be horrifies by that treatment anyway as it would be an insult to their religion. Then again I don't see how that would not lead to them being even angrier and turning the moderate muslims also against whoever did that.

Murders, torture and desecrating bodies has not made USA back out from the fight and swear they will never again resist Islamic terrorists so I don't see how it would work on the other side either.

(Not to mention how wrong it would be.)

That was the exact reason I said I'm against it, it would do nothing but incite even more hatred and violence.

Offline Nemo

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Re: Government Threatened Foley Family Over Ransom Payments
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2014, 12:42:25 am »
That whole idea has been thrown around every time someone fought against muslims. It is also really easy to see as stupid if you have even a cursory knowledge of Islam, since the "touching unclean items/food" doesn't count against you if it was against your will (such as this case) or as a last resort (for instance, if someone was trapped on a deserted island with only pork to eat, they would be permitted to eat it).
True. Then again, consider the effect of Word of Dante. A lot of Muslims (well, religious people in general (well, people in general really)) only know the basics of their religion, and not the finer points. So many of them may very well believe that being buried with pigs will screw them over in the afterlife. I don't know if this is actually the case though, and I doubt anything could be that easy. Since it probably isn't true, we shouldn't use pigs in that way, since that would just get the terrorist groups fired up (see what I did there?). That said, if someone really thought our forces could sentence them to Hell by burying them wrong, why not use that? Again, I don't think the pig thing is true just because that would be too awesome for us.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2014, 12:59:56 am by Nemo »
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Government Threatened Foley Family Over Ransom Payments
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2014, 12:59:42 am »
Oh look, more of Nemo treating Muslims as "the enemy."  What a surprise.
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Offline Nemo

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Re: Government Threatened Foley Family Over Ransom Payments
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2014, 01:04:31 am »
Oh look, more of Nemo treating Muslims as "the enemy."  What a surprise.
Heh, I had actually edited my quote before I even saw your response. That said, do you object to anything that I said in that post? Do you object to the part about people not knowing what they believe? Such that it would be possible some Muslims (especially if they only knew a few basics of their faith) really did think pork was some sort of soul Kryptonite? The same way some Christians think Jesus wrote the Ten Commandments but cannot name them? The same way some atheists are MRAs?

Relax. We can discuss my general views of Islam on a more appropriate thread if you wish.

On topic, let this incident stand against any claims by the right that President Obama is "soft" on terror.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2014, 01:06:58 am by Nemo »
"If it's white or Jewish then they're criminals, if it's two brown people killing each other ... meh, that's their culture and we should respect it ... cultural relativists should be ashamed of themselves." - Faisal Saeed Al Mutar

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Re: Government Threatened Foley Family Over Ransom Payments
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2014, 01:07:48 am »
I think fucking with your enemies corpses is a dick move no matter what personally.

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Re: Government Threatened Foley Family Over Ransom Payments
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2014, 01:16:39 am »
I dunno.  On FSTDT, about an Islamaphobic post by a Christian fundie, in which he said that Muslims should be forcibly sterilized or killed, you said that he had a pretty clear view of Islam.  And here, you're saying that it would be advantageous to antagonize ISIS by burying their dead with pork products or whatever.

I'm sorry, but why should I even give you the time of day?  The moment you said we should desecrate their graves, you proved that you're pretty damn low and hold a vendetta.

Actually, I lied.  The moment you proved that was when you were shocked that intelligent people would side with the oppressed Palestinians over the oppressive state of Israel, and your entire reason for being shocked is that the Palestinians are Muslims.
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Offline Mechtaur

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Re: Government Threatened Foley Family Over Ransom Payments
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2014, 01:30:19 am »
That whole idea has been thrown around every time someone fought against muslims. It is also really easy to see as stupid if you have even a cursory knowledge of Islam, since the "touching unclean items/food" doesn't count against you if it was against your will (such as this case) or as a last resort (for instance, if someone was trapped on a deserted island with only pork to eat, they would be permitted to eat it).
True. Then again, consider the effect of Word of Dante. A lot of Muslims (well, religious people in general (well, people in general really)) only know the basics of their religion, and not the finer points. So many of them may very well believe that being buried with pigs will screw them over in the afterlife. I don't know if this is actually the case though, and I doubt anything could be that easy. Since it probably isn't true, we shouldn't use pigs in that way, since that would just get the terrorist groups fired up (see what I did there?). That said, if someone really thought our forces could sentence them to Hell by burying them wrong, why not use that? Again, I don't think the pig thing is true just because that would be too awesome for us.

I can't speak for the number who don't know that tenant (but, then again, what can be said for any philosophy and its holders?). The thing is, most of the Islamic sages held the view that being in contact with pork or consuming it when absolutely necessary or against your will is not your fault, which can be researched (obviously, as with any philosophy you are going to find people who disagree).

As for using it against them, I sincerely hope you never become allowed to enter the military or any para-military group. You would literally be a walking case of slander against everyone "on your side".