General Feminism and the Industry thread

[niam2023]

It will never cease to amuse me that so many guys get sucked into this nonsensical "debate". I don't particularly care about gaming corruption - nor who did what to who. I mean, why should I? So what if someone traded sex for a review or something.

Why should gaming journalism even matter to me? Far as I'm concerned, this is just people on both sides blowing far out of proportion their own relevance.

[Ironchew]

The same goes for the Slymepit, its very existance is predicated on hating feminists and progressives in atheism and skepticism, it's vile from the start regardless of what its members do later.

The Slymepit? Isn't that Pharyngula's scapegoat of all things not slavishly worshipping PZ? The reactions on there to the name alone remind me of instant-drama-on-FQA-just-add-HRG.

Something tells me it's a relatively normal forum that Pharyngula can't stop howling and screeching about.

[Tolpuddle Martyr]

The stuff about Zoe Quinn wasn't simply slut-shaming, no matter how much certain individuals want that to be true.  Sure, there were some misogynists who were irrationally angry about her sex life, but that was nothing more than assholes being assholes.  The main problem is that it was a breach of journalistic integrity.

Oh, and Madman specifically said that "the kudzu" wasn't allowed here.

But from what I've read about Slymepit, I have to agree with you there.

Patent nonsense. GamerGate sprang from a hashtag coined by a washed up actor who wanted to titter about BurgersandFries. That it attracted some decent people later with genuine concerns is beside the point, its origins are tainted and always will be. What it is just another disturbing example of people organising like mini dictators online and trying to squelch dissent, if  a few pop by later on and suggest that it would be nice if the trains ran on time that doesn't tranform their cause into the good guys!

[Sigmaleph]

Yeah. You can say both sides are shitty and use that as a reason to stand on the sidelines. You can also judge the actors on their motives as well as their actions and the motivation behind the Gamergate was to attack a woman for being slutty. That's shitty from the get go, I absolutely get to be critical of them doing that. I also get to be more critical when individual actors move beyond hatred and proceed to stalking and intimidation. The same goes for the Slymepit, its very existance is predicated on hating feminists and progressives in atheism and skepticism, it's vile from the start regardless of what its members do later. Ditto the groups of people on 4chan who decided to "go blackhat" on Quinn.

Sure, you can absolutely be a dickwad to members of the above groups and merely being members doesn't excuse bad behavior from them but one "side" in this debate still has its origins and impetus in bullying and discrimination. That doesn't mean that they lose their rights as human beings but it absolutely gives me the right to say they are worse than their critics. Some of their critics are stupid people sure, but disgust at a whole movement forged to bully and intimidate is innately more noble than the movement in question!

Of course you can criticise people for being assholes. But this is not the "Are gamergaters assholes?" discussion. The GamerGate thread is for that.

This is meant to be a discussion on women in gaming. If your point is "some people are assholes to women in gaming", then yes, quite right. If your point is "some of the people who dislike the idea of feminism in gaming are scum, and therefore wrong", then no. That's a bad argument. If your point is "Gamergaters are assholes", you have the wrong thread.

[Second Coming of Madman]

See what I mean? Kudzu.

[Eiki-mun]

So, uh... does anyone have a non-GamerGate related point or claim they wish to make?

Me, personally, I got kinda pissed off at this article here:

http://www.polygon.com/2014/10/1/6880061/shadow-mordor-kissing-design

That seems to be claiming that the makers of Shadows of Mordor didn't do enough to, um... teach people that kissing and killing aren't the same thing, I guess? I'm honestly not sure what the point of the article was, all I know is that it didn't make it. Does this have anything to do with feminism? Reading the article, it seems like it. Is it an overblown rant against a quick little tutorial mechanic? Yes.

[Tolpuddle Martyr]

I didn't say wrong, I said they suck-in more words and i can favor the side who's ideology sucks less. But, point taken-enough of gamergate!

[Second Coming of Madman]

So, uh... does anyone have a non-GamerGate related point or claim they wish to make?

Me, personally, I got kinda pissed off at this article here:

http://www.polygon.com/2014/10/1/6880061/shadow-mordor-kissing-design

That seems to be claiming that the makers of Shadows of Mordor didn't do enough to, um... teach people that kissing and killing aren't the same thing, I guess? I'm honestly not sure what the point of the article was, all I know is that it didn't make it. Does this have anything to do with feminism? Reading the article, it seems like it. Is it an overblown rant against a quick little tutorial mechanic? Yes.

Eh, there are plenty of other things you could take a ax to. For example, the late-game status of the Nemesis system is one.

[Cloud3514]

So, they take a tutorial bit and rail against it as if it's somehow objectifying the protagonist's wife? How does one even come to that kind of conclusion?

[ironbite]

You know I have no clue how you can do that.

Ironbite-it's just...amazing.

[Tolpuddle Martyr]

Yeeeah, that's a long bow to draw. This action that does this in a hiding and kissing context uses the same controls as the hiding and killing orcs bit.

There is documented cases where video games do depict violence against women gratuitously or even lets the player get in on the action this...isn't one of those. In those cases you can see it plain as day, it doesn't take quite that many cognitive leaps to get there.

Wonder if a bug will emerge that only allows you to try and kiss orcs in combat 

[niam2023]

KISS ME WARCHIEF KAKABAKA!

Note:Warchief Kakabaka is actually a possible name in Shadows of Mordor.

[Askold]

Wonder if a bug will emerge that only allows you to try and kiss orcs in combat 

...Someone needs to make a mod where kiss will replace the "branding."

Instead of mindraping uruks and forcing them to be your slaves you could go around romancing them and giving them flowers and kisses. Rather than undead murdermachine that creates a slave army you could be the romancer from beyond who creates a harem of orcs. Willing bishie servant/lovers who rally to your flag to free their brethren from domination of Sauron.

...Ok I will just take my coat and leave now.

[Tolpuddle Martyr]

Man....



...cupid needs dental!

[Askold]

Oy! You just have different standards of beauty...

Stop being so prejudiced.