Author Topic: Bachmann's America  (Read 37497 times)

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Offline TenfoldMaquette

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Re: Bachmann's America
« Reply #60 on: February 05, 2012, 12:14:05 pm »
Sorry, what did religion ever do to you? And I mean religion, not religious people. Think people here of all places should know Christians come in all shades and prejudging someone on that they're religious is just as bad as prejudging on that they're not cisgender and straight.

Not directed at me, I know, but at least in my experience I've noticed that religion tends to give people too many excuses to do bad things; someone can always claim the command to be horrible came from on high, and society will accept (if not necessarily condone) that explanation without subjecting it to the rigorous examination that other fantastical claims are given. Religion is uniquely armored to be resistant to questioning or justifications, which can make it genuinely dangerous in the wrong hands. You can snark at someone all you want, but the second you bring up which imaginary best friend they're holding hands with, the snarker becomes "intolerant" - and the religions of the world can and do use this fact to hide their actions behind their faith. You can't criticize their actions without being painted as criticizing their beliefs, and this somehow makes the critic the bad guy for doing so.

It's not a universal truth - there are always exceptions to the rule out there - but at least for me, that's what religion "did" that makes it so awful.

Offline Eniliad

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Re: Bachmann's America
« Reply #61 on: February 05, 2012, 03:37:31 pm »
A agree with Tenfold. I don't hate Christianity, but I very strongly dislike it, for all the reasons he's posted. Also, the religion told me that I was an abomination to be put to death, so there's that.
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deadpandoubter

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Re: Bachmann's America
« Reply #62 on: February 05, 2012, 05:31:04 pm »
Religion lied to me for years and, similar to Eniliad's experience, made me hate myself from a very young age. My mental issues have some genetic basis but if it weren't for the religion I was raised in would I call myself a demon incarnate? Would I spend so long fervently believing that I was a sub-human entity that had possessed my mother's child?

Depression isn't confined to the religious, but personally, I've made greater strides since dumping that tired old shit. Atheistic world views aren't for everyone, but tolerance for others and one's self is, and religion seems prone to promoting INtolerance.

Offline Mechtaur

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Re: Bachmann's America
« Reply #63 on: February 05, 2012, 05:36:15 pm »
שמן ממזר בן-זונה

Aimed at Bachmann or the school?

Actually, that would be aimed at the male bullies. For the female bullies, Bachmann, and Andersen, I have this:

שמנה ממזרת בת-זונה

Heh, took me a minute to get it right. My computer messed up a couple letters.


Offline sandman

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Re: Bachmann's America
« Reply #64 on: February 05, 2012, 06:23:43 pm »
I have never understood the mantra of some reactionary idiots that if you curb aggressive behavior or prevent fighting that you are "emasculating" boys. I hear is damn near constantly from parents. They excuse bullying and cruelty with "Oh, boys will be boys."

I had a father this year tell me that he specifically instructed his son to retaliate immediately against any kind of physical aggression against him with "twice what they done." He told his son that if anyone hits him, he is to immediately hit them back twice as hard. If anyone shoves him, he is to shove them back twice as hard. He told his son that if he ever lets any slight against him pass that he is "weak" and a "punk" and a "victim." This kid now deeply believes in his soul that he has the right and the obligation to retaliate instantly against all slights, real or imagined. The kid doesn't even think about it anymore; it is ingrained in his identity. So far this year he has been involved in 3 fights that all escalated from the stupidest shit imaginable: once when another student stumbled against him in the hallway and he responded by shoving them into the wall. The second time resulted from a student calling him a "dick" for running his mouth. Next thing you know, punches thrown. The third time a student reached out and pushed his shoulder. Fist to the face. Once more instance and this kid is expelled. I expect that incident within the next two weeks, and unless this kid somehow unlearns this horrible mindset, he will be dead or in prison by his 18th birthday.

The thing is, the father continues to defend his son's behavior. His son has been suspended each time he was caught fighting, and each time his father was in school threatening a lawsuit because his son "has the right to defend himself." If we were not a private school with a very specific policy on fighting regardless of who started it that the parents all sign at the beginning of each year I'm certain he would have brought that suit. Each time his son is suspended, he returns to school with tales of how his dad kept telling him he was "proud of him for being strong," and how his father told him he was absolutely right to respond with vicious force. During these suspension days the father, who does not work, takes his son on reward trips, shopping, to movies, to an amusement park. The last time he bought his son a new cell phone as a reward for "defending himself." Defending himself against a kid two years younger, 8 inches shorter, and 55 pounds lighter than him.

All in the name of being "masculine."

I had another mother of a student once get in my face and tell me that her son (who was black) should not receive a suspension for fighting while the other student involved (who was white) should get once because in any black-white physical confrontation, the white is always at fault because all whites are racist. (Realize that I am white, and I am the teacher who not only was the only staff member advocating that her son not be expelled, but I am also the one who wrote sixteen letters of recommendation to get her kid into a local private high school and spent 3 hours a week after school tutoring her son for free so he could pass his exams.) When it became clear that I was not on board with this tactic, she switched gears and told me that her son should not be suspended because black boys are naturally more physically aggressive than white boys and we needed to be understanding about that.

I despise this mantra that being a man = being aggressive and violent. Manliness has never meant physical aggression. I was taught that being a "man" meant three things by my grandfather: Taking care of your business. Taking care of your family. Taking care of those who can not care for themselves. He told me that if you do these things, then you are a man.

IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!


My grandfather made me memorize that. It's "If" by Rudyard Kipling. THAT is what being a "man" is.
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Offline Lithp

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Re: Bachmann's America
« Reply #65 on: February 05, 2012, 06:59:13 pm »
Sorry, what did religion ever do to you? And I mean religion, not religious people. Think people here of all places should know Christians come in all shades and prejudging someone on that they're religious is just as bad as prejudging on that they're not cisgender and straight.

Hey, you're the one who turned "religion is bad" to "religious people are bad" to "Christians are bad." Don't ask me to explain your logic, because I'm not following it either.

As to the thing in bold: This is such a cop-out. You can't remove religion from religious people because religion is an idea, & ideas don't exist without humans. Take any idea you perceive to be harmful, any one, & try to come up with a situation where it can cause harm without a person acting on it. It won't work.

Which you might assume proves that I'm saying religious people are bad. Well, guess what, it doesn't. You can't have religion without people, but you can have people without religion.

And for the record, a cult is basically just a small religion. They don't all commit mass suicide.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 07:13:37 pm by Lithp »

Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: Bachmann's America
« Reply #66 on: February 05, 2012, 07:36:00 pm »
I know parents who teach their kids that it's okay to hit back when they're cornered and the other person has hit them first. They had to be taught that because now defending yourself in school is a crime.

And I've also heard of kids who only get one B+ or A- on their report cards, and their parents chew them out. Like a friend of mine got an A- in math class, and her parents threatened to sabotage all her other schoolwork if she didn't bring that grade up.
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Offline Lithp

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Re: Bachmann's America
« Reply #67 on: February 05, 2012, 07:55:49 pm »
Quote
Like a friend of mine got an A- in math class, and her parents threatened to sabotage all her other schoolwork if she didn't bring that grade up.

Are...are they listening to themselves?

I remember high school, it was such a fucking no-win situation. In particular, it was a huge fucking catastrophe every time I didn't finish a minor assignment, but of course my parents didn't want me to stay up late.

Quote
They excuse bullying and cruelty with "Oh, boys will be boys."

Nauseating, innit?

deadpandoubter

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Re: Bachmann's America
« Reply #68 on: February 05, 2012, 08:23:38 pm »
My grandfather told my mother that if someone started a (physical) fight with her and she didn't end it, he'd whup her when she got home. This was the batshit insane grandfather, of course; my mom just taught us that if someone hits us while intending harm that we should fight back and not be too scared to do so. "If I find out that YOU started it, though, there'll be hell to pay."

Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: Bachmann's America
« Reply #69 on: February 05, 2012, 10:12:00 pm »
My grandmother told my mother that she wasn't allowed to cry until she made the other kid cry.

I rather like it actually.

Offline Iczerfour

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Re: Bachmann's America
« Reply #70 on: February 05, 2012, 11:02:26 pm »
.......    my heart goes out to those poor kids.   those people are monsters...  I hope they all get Fired and thrown into jail where they will all be ass raped!

Offline Meshakhad

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Re: Bachmann's America
« Reply #71 on: February 06, 2012, 12:12:33 am »
I plan to raise my kids to defend themselves to a reasonable point. But violence should only be used as a defense against violence. When it comes to insults, I will encourage them to just ignore them completely. Because if they don't react at all, the bullies will lose interest.
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Offline Shane for Wax

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Re: Bachmann's America
« Reply #72 on: February 06, 2012, 12:21:54 am »
Dad told me to defend myself after the bullying got to that 'maybe a fight is gonna happen... maybe not' point. He said he'd be disappointed in me if I didn't. Needless to say, I defended myself. As has been mentioned before, I got the brunt of the punishment for defending myself. Dad toasted me and said I had done well to defend myself and screw the school for taking the bully's side.

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Offline clockworkgirl21

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Re: Bachmann's America
« Reply #73 on: February 06, 2012, 02:54:21 am »
Quote
And I've also heard of kids who only get one B+ or A- on their report cards, and their parents chew them out. Like a friend of mine got an A- in math class, and her parents threatened to sabotage all her other schoolwork if she didn't bring that grade up.

In 5th grade, I knew this girl whose parents were both teachers and absolutely lost their shit if she didn't get at least an A- on every paper/project. Not as an overall grade, but as a grade for every single thing she did. I was paired with her and a couple other kids for a report, and of course, this group effort did not pull an A. It pulled a sad and miserable B. Can you imagine the hell? She spent the entire afternoon in the bathroom crying. Then in 10th grade I was in a math class with her brother. He was getting Cs, which was honestly a lot better than my grades in that class. I asked if their parents had eased up over the years, but he said, "No, they still shout and threaten to break my shit every time I get less than an A, but they're just going to have to deal with the fact that geometry sucks, and I'm lucky I'm getting a C, to be honest."

I feel like Mr. and Mrs. Drunk-With-the-Power-They-Have-On-Their-Kids should have been publicly humiliated every single time one the classes they taught for the year didn't test as well as other classes. It would have been so sweet.

Offline Eniliad

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Re: Bachmann's America
« Reply #74 on: February 06, 2012, 03:28:56 am »
I plan to raise my kids to defend themselves to a reasonable point. But violence should only be used as a defense against violence. When it comes to insults, I will encourage them to just ignore them completely. Because if they don't react at all, the bullies will lose interest.

No they won't. Speaking from experience. Still, the lessons are, I think, correct ones.
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