Author Topic: Feminism and Effective Propaganda  (Read 37773 times)

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Offline Rime

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Re: Feminism and Effective Propaganda
« Reply #135 on: October 18, 2015, 09:39:17 pm »
Yes, because most of them were the ones dog-piling her and those who weren't didn't do enough.  No excuses, me included.  If I can't then who should I blame?

There wasn't a real organized movement of gamers when Anita started getting harassed.  What you were asking was basically impossible at the time.

Furthermore, gamers caught at least one of Anita's harassers.  What more do you want?

Fewer excuses, next!

And I'm telling you that you are willfully ignorant BECAUSE ANITA SARKEESIAN.

No, I'm not.

Mmkay.  Thanks!


EDIT: I didn't notice until now that I deleted an important sentence.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 04:45:39 am by Rime »
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Offline guizonde

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Re: Feminism and Effective Propaganda
« Reply #136 on: October 18, 2015, 09:45:42 pm »
i tried to stay away from this thread. i really did. everything bugs me about it. even the title. "feminism" is said as a slur. and "propaganda" should NEVER be said seriously. especially next to the word "effective". yes, i went all-caps. the thread title is buzzword bullshit, the thread is buzzword bullshit. the arguments are irreconciliable entrenched positions. can we just say "fuck it" and move on before somebody gets banhammered over a pathetic reason?

i mean seriously. what are we? twelve? this is low-grade trollbait. everybody else has moved on from this gobbledigook. oh em gee, there are douchecanoes on the internet. dear aunt gemima, i'mma gettin' the vapors. what a shocking revelation.

sarkeesian can fuck off for being a douchecanoe. misogynist gamers can fuck off for being douchecanoes. and you all should get yourselves checked, because you're all acting like douchecanoes. this is trolling 101. it's the fifth thread in a row that doesn't go into fnb over the same stale point. can we please try and act like sentient species and realize we're not getting anywhere?

sorry if i came across as pissed off (i am). no insults intended. but the points still stand, even if the tone is flippant.

Hey guizonde, I'm sorry it can't always be nice. Feminism isn't said as a slur. The reason for the title is I was trying to get to UP's belief that the feminist movement needs more effective propaganda. By effective I mean useful and I've just used Propaganda instead of PR.

fair enough, apology accepted, hell, language is confusing in all its implications, so no worries on my part. in french, we'd say "mal dit" (badly said).

this thread still makes my hackles rise, though. i don't like infighting.
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Offline Eiki-mun

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Re: Feminism and Effective Propaganda
« Reply #137 on: October 18, 2015, 10:43:44 pm »
You know, propaganda was a perfectly neutral word until the 1940s.
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Offline guizonde

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Re: Feminism and Effective Propaganda
« Reply #138 on: October 18, 2015, 10:51:19 pm »
You know, propaganda was a perfectly neutral word until the 1940s.

not to a historian, it's a very politically charged term. always has been. it's been a buzzword since its inception when you're rooting out discrepancies in public discourse.
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Offline Cloud3514

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Re: Feminism and Effective Propaganda
« Reply #139 on: October 19, 2015, 03:05:59 am »
You know, I'm sitting here, seeing.... you know what get brought up again and I can't help but think "Why do they care about Anita Sarkeesian when it's supposed to be a movement against bad journalism?" Of course, I'm never going to get the answer to that because we all know, even if they won't admit it, it has nothing to do with journalism.
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Offline Rime

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Re: Feminism and Effective Propaganda
« Reply #140 on: October 19, 2015, 04:50:52 am »
FWIW Cloud, I noticed how this did get derailed because someone just can't stop talking about her and it seems that he's leaving tasty bait for tangents that none of us should be taking.
And when we're done soul searching,
And we carry the weight and die for a cause.
Is misery made beautiful
Right before our eyes.

Mercy be revealed, or blind us where we stand?

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Feminism and Effective Propaganda
« Reply #141 on: October 25, 2015, 03:41:50 pm »
Yes, because most of them were the ones dog-piling her and those who weren't didn't do enough.  No excuses, me included.  If I can't then who should I blame?

There wasn't a real organized movement of gamers when Anita started getting harassed.  What you were asking was basically impossible at the time.

Furthermore, gamers caught at least one of Anita's harassers.  What more do you want?

Fewer excuses, next!

And I'm telling you that you are willfully ignorant BECAUSE ANITA SARKEESIAN.

No, I'm not.

Mmkay.  Thanks!


EDIT: I didn't notice until now that I deleted an important sentence.

Grow up.

You know, I'm sitting here, seeing.... you know what get brought up again and I can't help but think "Why do they care about Anita Sarkeesian when it's supposed to be a movement against bad journalism?" Of course, I'm never going to get the answer to that because we all know, even if they won't admit it, it has nothing to do with journalism.

Because every single movement has to be about one thing, exclusively.

Offline Rime

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Re: Feminism and Effective Propaganda
« Reply #142 on: October 25, 2015, 04:43:26 pm »
You've kept bringing us on the topic of Anita Sarkeesian's agenda.  We've gone off track by responding to your claims and then turning this into a Gamergate thread of which we're all at fault, I guess because it's been quiet here.  You've continually tried to excuse your attention to her by saying that men don't receive the same outrage and attempted to keep the focus on this woman because of it.  We keep saying that it doesn't matter, but you can't seem to understand that.

I was going to post a reply in here to exemplify that about the flash game and gave up before you asked me to grow up.  Why does it matter that there wasn't the outrage at Justin Beiber?  The fact it was made at all was just making it look like there's a real misogynist culture on the Internet.  I think what you're doing is called "non-sequitur" because equal public outrage isn't the point.  It's the fact it was made at all over someone who could have been largely ignored for all her Tropes vs. Women videos were contributing to commentary on gamer culture.

I'm going to try to limit my need to feed your obsession about the woman, but she's fallen off the radar for everyone except people like you.  Sure you can find lots of recent tidbits, but the first thing on my mind when you wrote Anita was me saying "Sarkeesian?  Again?"  I'll just have to resist the urge to respond to your efforts to draw me into another argument about Linux being full of misogyn... err... that woman.

As Art has pointed out repeatedly, the negative press was actually good press for her because it was attention.  Never mind excuses like "we weren't organized politically!" "Did you know she's a con artist and she thieved other people's artwork?" and "Look look!  Some of these accusations look false!"

It doesn't matter.  It was the negative attention needed to make it look like the gaming community hated women; and she's not the only female gamer who gets this either.

So, asking you to stop making excuses for your obsessions is being immature?
And when we're done soul searching,
And we carry the weight and die for a cause.
Is misery made beautiful
Right before our eyes.

Mercy be revealed, or blind us where we stand?

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Feminism and Effective Propaganda
« Reply #143 on: October 25, 2015, 05:04:36 pm »
You've kept bringing us on the topic of Anita Sarkeesian's agenda.  We've gone off track by responding to your claims and then turning this into a Gamergate thread of which we're all at fault, I guess because it's been quiet here.  You've continually tried to excuse your attention to her by saying that men don't receive the same outrage and attempted to keep the focus on this woman because of it.  We keep saying that it doesn't matter, but you can't seem to understand that.

You're only saying it doesn't matter because you don't want to admit that the media is biased in these peoples' favor.  Either that, or they're just using a damsel in distress story for publicity.

I was going to post a reply in here to exemplify that about the flash game and gave up before you asked me to grow up.  Why does it matter that there wasn't the outrage at Justin Beiber?

It matters because it's evidence of a double standard.

The fact it was made at all was just making it look like there's a real misogynist culture on the Internet.

Yes, there are misogynists on the Internet.  In other news, grass is green and water is wet.

I think what you're doing is called "non-sequitur" because equal public outrage isn't the point.  It's the fact it was made at all over someone who could have been largely ignored for all her Tropes vs. Women videos were contributing to commentary on gamer culture.

Okay, that's a legitimate point.

I'm going to try to limit my need to feed your obsession about the woman, but she's fallen off the radar for everyone except people like you.

And Google, and the United Nations...

Sure you can find lots of recent tidbits, but the first thing on my mind when you wrote Anita was me saying "Sarkeesian?  Again?"

That doesn't say anything about anybody other than you.  If you haven't been following Anita, fine, but don't assume she's off the radar, because she isn't.

As Art has pointed out repeatedly, the negative press was actually good press for her because it was attention.  Never mind excuses like "we weren't organized politically!" "Did you know she's a con artist and she thieved other people's artwork?" and "Look look!  Some of these accusations look false!"

Yes, she is famous in large part because of them.  However, the media is also to blame for agenda-pushing and yellow journalism.

It doesn't matter.  It was the negative attention needed to make it look like the gaming community hated women; and she's not the only female gamer who gets this either.

Care to elaborate on the latter part?

So, asking you to stop making excuses for your obsessions is being immature?

You think I'm "obsessed" now?

Offline ironbite

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Re: Feminism and Effective Propaganda
« Reply #144 on: October 25, 2015, 05:41:22 pm »
I'm for a change of popcorn.

Ironbite-anyone want some as I'm up?

Offline Rime

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Re: Feminism and Effective Propaganda
« Reply #145 on: October 25, 2015, 09:57:21 pm »
1)  I'm saying that it doesn't matter because claiming this is about media bias and double standards is just a distraction from the topic.  Or is it?  Your turn to elaborate.

2) I guess the general indifference of the forums here and the Escapist toward Sarkeesian is no indicator.  They're just two discussion forums on the Internet.  I can also cite "Kdo chce psa bít, hůl si vždycky najde."

3) Dismissing the fact people want something done about a particular hate culture and are taking steps to do something about it. That's wrong because there's a double standard in the media?

4) Are you claiming that only Ms. Sarkeesian gets blatantly sexualized comments channel (well she doesn't now) and you want examples of other female gamers/users who get similar treatment?  Just surf through the comments on this user's channel.  Hopefully I don't have to drag up twenty YouTube users to satisfy your demands that Anita is the only one who gets an abundant number of sexualized comments on their videos.

5) And yes, I'm saying you have a thing for discussing this woman the same way The Illusive Man couldn't shut up about how evil Linux users are.
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And we carry the weight and die for a cause.
Is misery made beautiful
Right before our eyes.

Mercy be revealed, or blind us where we stand?

Offline Cerim Treascair

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Re: Feminism and Effective Propaganda
« Reply #146 on: October 27, 2015, 12:59:42 am »
I'm for a change of popcorn.

Ironbite-anyone want some as I'm up?

Yo, Ibby, I picked up this wicked tasty Cracker Jack chocolate-peanut butter popcorn.  Want some?
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Offline Cloud3514

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Re: Feminism and Effective Propaganda
« Reply #147 on: October 27, 2015, 04:16:07 am »

5) And yes, I'm saying you have a thing for discussing this woman the same way The Illusive Man couldn't shut up about how evil Linux users are.

Now THAT is a story that sounds hilarious and worth talking about.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Feminism and Effective Propaganda
« Reply #148 on: October 27, 2015, 08:27:08 am »
I thought TIM's gripe was with the FOSS crowd in general, not their choice of wank material.  Honestly, I miss it.  At least he was somewhat informative and interesting to read.
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Offline mellenORL

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Re: Feminism and Effective Propaganda
« Reply #149 on: October 27, 2015, 10:03:11 am »
TIM was our resident tabloid editorialist, in the way he actually wrote up carefully composed articles as posts. Also, it would be epic to watch him and UP go at it XD.
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