The Jews specifically wanted Israel rather than some other place. Besides, there weren't many unpopulated livable regions so settling them in their ancestral home made some sense. ...Though the fighting that came because of it does make it seem like putting them in some place Alaska or something might have been better choice.
It's partly because there was already a lot of Jewish settlement and infrastructure in the region, which stretched back decades. So there were legitimately practical reasons.
Four or five hundred Jews in 1850, sure. They should have gone and lived in Morocco or Iraq by this logic.
That's demonstrably false. In 1838, there were 3,000 Jews in Jerusalem alone.
And a half dozen outside, sure. The remaining million or so had no right, as such, to live there.
It's partly because there was already a lot of Jewish settlement and infrastructure in the region, which stretched back decades. So there were legitimately practical reasons.
It's wholly because of the Zionist movement, with largely sentimental/religious motivations.
I'd say give 'em part of the Yukon or an area in South America that doesn't suck. Some place other than the middle of a sand-blasted desert surrounded by likely hostile natives. They could bitch all they want about their "ancestral home," but it doesn't change the fact that people kinda lived there already and had been doing so for generations and, thus, have more claim to the land itself than a bunch of guys coming back there after what had to have been, at least, a few hundred years, if not thousands.
It'd be kinda like me going back to my house in Little Rock and being surprised when the people that already live there get pissed off when I start living there and eating their food.
The Jews never left the Holy Land since their return from the Babylonian exile. All that was different this time was that there were Jews from elsewhere in the world and they had genuine sovereignty over themselves.
Every Jew that immigrated to Palestine around or after 1947 - and that's like 99% - had left Palestine before they re-immigrated. The very small indigenous Jewish population did not grant unrelated Germans the right to annex someone else's home simply due to their religion.
I know none of this changes the current political climate, but damn it, its a peeve of mine. Israel is kind of a MASSIVE peeve of mine. Mostly because their pathetic dick-waving wouldn't mean shit if it weren't for big bro America backing them up even when they're being massive cunts. Again, because we got ourselves a doomsday prophecy to fulfill!
Israel won the Six-Day War without America in their corner. And there are more reasons for our support than that prophecy.
[/quote] Well thats quite the apologia for ethnic cleansing. I accept the existance of Israel now but its origins were a massive injuztice to the people who lived there.[/quote]
Fun fact: Jews were driven to Israel from all over the Middle East, starting at about the same time. And even before that, they suffered persecution. [/quote]
Largely by the Zionist movement. Those guys were assholes. They also forcibly drafted Holocaust survivors after telling them they were headed to America. The Zionist movement greatly encouraged that flight, and were the key cause of it.[/quote]
Citation? [/quote]
The zionists were largely responsible for the Iraq exodus. Most Iraqi Jews didn't want to leave. The riots had very little to do with it (but can be spun as "ethnic cleansing" to absolve Israel of their responsibility for their own massacres).
http://www.dangoor.com/70006.htmlhttp://www.nimn.org/Perspectives/israeli_voices/000427.php?section=Israeli%20VoicesIs the best I can get on the internet for the conscription claim, but Benny Morris, a fascist, talks about this a fair bit in some of his books.
And I take it you've never heard of the
Farhud.
Are you talking about the civil war in Mandatory Palestine? Because that started in 1947, hardly "long before." And yes, that was started by the Arabs.
By Israel, in order to expropriate land within 'their' country. Read Benny Morris, really. You're quite ignorant on this.
The Jews never left the Holy Land since their return from the Babylonian exile. All that was different this time was that there were Jews from elsewhere in the world and they had genuine sovereignty over themselves.
The Jewish population of Palestine was insignificant. The European Jewish population was zero. They had no legal claim whatsoever to an inch of land.
No legal claim whatsoever?
Zip. The Palestinians, including a handful of Jews, had total right to the land they owned.
The logical way to do Zionism, if it needed to be done, was as a one-state multi-ethnic nation like Lebanon. If Ben Gurion couldn't accept that, he could instead make a nice homeland in hell, I think.
Israel already is a multi-ethnic state. You have Arabs, you have Syriac Christians, you have Vietnamese refugees, and you have gentile migrants from the former Soviet Union, among other non-Jewish demographics.
That's fine. I'm sure they wouldn't mind accepting the indigenous million and a half Palestinian refugees they forcibly expelled from their great multi-ethnic country then. Except they've spent the last 60 years expelling them even further, of course.
Indeed. Israel started and maintains the civil war and is therefore responsible for every consequence. Others are also responsible, but the primary guilty party is Israel, and her apologists like yourself.
Okay, seriously, do you think Hamas has no agency of its own? Or do you think it'll just abandon its ways if Israel threw its hands in the air and gave up?
Takes two to tango. Hamas obviously can't end the conflict while Israel bluntly refuses to negotiate, ever. Because it is Israeli refusal that perpetuates the conflict, it's 100% their fault.
[quote
Absolutely foul. The US has many miles of tunnels and bunkers. Therefore, the US government is responsible for 9/11, because Americans live on the surface.
You're completely missing my point. What I'm saying is that Hamas refuses to let its civilians use its extensive network of shelters. [/quote]
So did the US on September 11, 2001. There was plenty of space to house the population.
I sympathize with the people of Gaza, I really do. And that's part of why I'm so angry at your support of Hamas.
Self-serving crocodile tears. I've yet to hear you demand Israel end their opposition to peace, which is the only thing that matters. Indeed I've watched you defend Israel's continued refusal to permit peace.
Israel is not opposed to peace. They were on the road to peace before Hamas threw a wrench into the works. [/quote]
Israel has negotiated in good faith once, at Taba. Never again, never before. Hamas and Fatah have been begging for any kind of acceptable deal for three generations; ignored.
Another fun fact: the Jewish Nazi organisation, a large and powerful element within Likud, is still well-respected within Israel, despite literally offering to ally with and aid Hitler during WW2. Their terrorist leader later became President. Members are issued medals by the state. One of their victims - a Swedish diplomat who saved many tens of thousands of lives during WW2, gunned down because he was trying to negotiate a ceasefire - is excluded from the Known Unto The Nations list because he was murdered by Jews.
Citation fucking needed.
Here's your photo of the letter the respected later-President of Israel sent to Hitler's ambassador in Ankara offering assistance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)#/media/File:SternGang-Doc-Nazi-Collaboration.jpg
