Christian News Network fundies

[KingOfRhye]

Someone commented that it isn't fair to Grace Kim Kwon that we discuss her without giving her a chance to defend herself.  Do we care?  Asking for a friend.

Considering how she routinely insults huge segments of the American population, I feel absolutely no obligation to be nice to her in any way. 

It would be amusing to see her show up here or in a FSTDT comment section though....just to see her get torn a new one.

[BobRumba]

It would be amusing to see her show up here or in a FSTDT comment section though....just to see her get torn a new one.

It's one of those things I dream of.  But she keeps to her safe areas, and rarely ventures out where she can be disagreed with and/or cannot control the conversation.

[dpareja]

It would be amusing to see her show up here or in a FSTDT comment section though....just to see her get torn a new one.

It's one of those things I dream of.  But she keeps to her safe areas, and rarely ventures out where she can be disagreed with and/or cannot control the conversation.

She's afraid of being triggered by all the microaggressions out there.

[Ambulance Chaser]

Someone commented that it isn't fair to Grace Kim Kwon that we discuss her without giving her a chance to defend herself.  Do we care?  Asking for a friend.

Considering how she routinely insults huge segments of the American population, I feel absolutely no obligation to be nice to her in any way. 

It would be amusing to see her show up here or in a FSTDT comment section though....just to see her get torn a new one.

I actually do kind of feel sorry for her. She seems mentally ill, like she suffers from some kind of disconnect with reality.

I don't see her trying to control any conversations; it's more like she's so far out in the weeds that she doesn't know or care what the conversation is about.

[BobRumba]

I actually do kind of feel sorry for her. She seems mentally ill, like she suffers from some kind of disconnect with reality.

I don't see her trying to control any conversations; it's more like she's so far out in the weeds that she doesn't know or care what the conversation is about.

That's exactly how I feel.  I don't give her nearly the attention I give some of the others because she's so off the rails.

[KingOfRhye]

There is always a temptation to blast Christian News Network for their blatant fundie-centric stories and headlines.  I like to point it out when they bash Catholicism because it makes them look like the biggest hypocrites, but they cannot hide e their hate.

They can never say "Pope Francis", for example.  It's always "Pope" Francis, or more irritatingly, "Jorge Bergoglio, the Roman Catholic leader known as Pope Francis".  Sometimes they'll say "pontiff known as...".

I learned not to call them out for it though, nothing brings the ban hammer down harder.

...and there's another one!  There's a story on there about Trump meeting Pope Francis, and yeah, he's "Roman Catholic leader Jorge Bergoglio, also known as “Pope Francis,”" again.  They can't even use the word Pope without quotes, I guess.

Hmm, perhaps it says something that I'm an atheist and I have no problem with that while some Christians do....

[BobRumba]

Christian News Network is blatantly anti-Catholic, and some of the most obnoxious fundies on it (Oboehner, Reason2012, Amos, Jason Todd and others) are some of the worst anti-Catholics there.  I have a lot of issues with the Catholic church but I was raised Catholic and know their fundie BS when I smell it, so I often find myself defending the Catholics. 

At least they're not opposed to evolution.

[KingOfRhye]

I guess I'm just not up on my theology or something, because I've been trying to understand the latest stuff Amos is telling me and it really makes no damn sense.  It's all predestined if we're going to be saved or not (since "before time began", not that phrase makes sense either) yet people somehow have a choice still?  How the hell does that work?

[BobRumba]

He's maddening because he's so completely stupid.  I got into it with him big time earlier because I pointed out to him that people have different interpretations of scripture, and he responded that the Bible says not to add to scripture.  I told him interpreting was not adding, it was just understanding.  He disagreed.  I gave him a DICTIONARY DEFINITION of "interpret" to show him that the word means understanding, and that everyone who reads scripture has their own interpretation of it, and he STILL fought me saying "scripture interprets scripture". 

I submitted that whole exchange a few minutes ago, it should appear tomorrow.

[Sigmaleph]

I guess I'm just not up on my theology or something, because I've been trying to understand the latest stuff Amos is telling me and it really makes no damn sense.  It's all predestined if we're going to be saved or not (since "before time began", not that phrase makes sense either) yet people somehow have a choice still?  How the hell does that work?

Ooh, calvinist predestination.

Fun philosophical question to play with, I think. Though I can't fault anyone for taking a look at it, calling bullshit, and not being concerned with it further.

[Askold]

Ok, it goes like this: If I look up from crystal ball that predicts future with 100% accuracy to see what you will have for breakfast tomorrow... Do you still have free will? It has now been foreseen what that breakfast will be but if I do not tell you about it, or in any other way will not try to interfere with your life... Does this affect you? Has your free will been reduced? On one hand now there is only one way this next breakfast will play out ...on the other hand, there is nothing forcing you to have that food and the reasons you eat it are the same even if I had not used my crystal ball.

[KingOfRhye]

Seems to me that if such a crystal ball exists, then no, there is no free will, just the illusion of it.  I always thought that if there was such a thing, a crystal ball, it would show the most likely possible future or something.  What would happen if everything keeps going the way it is, in other words.

[Askold]

See, this is the bit I don't get.

Why does someone knowing the future mean that there is no free will? As far as I've understood it, you can say all you want about how the future could branch off into different paths but we have this one timeline and in order for someone to have made a different choice at some point it would require that something had been different. Otherwise even if there is only one timeline because with no "outside" interference things will play out in exactly one way.

Now if someone uses their knowledge of the future to change things then that would either create a new timeline and the prediction would become false or the future-vision would already show what is going to happen and the person looking into the future will always cause the same future to happen even if they actively try to prevent it. Even then, is it really a lack of free will? Just because I play a rigged game doesn't mean that my mind is being controlled.

[RavynousHunter]

Thus, we see the problem with prophecies in more...creative media.  Unless it is either just a possibility (as in, not 100% certain) or extremely vague, they tend to completely undermine any sense of dramatic tension.  If a prophet says something will happen, and he's never wrong, then no matter ​what you do, that thing is going to happen.  You have no choice in the matter.  You might have free will, but it doesn't mean a thing, since the wheels of prophecy will move despite your own actions; every choice is rendered meaningless.

It is, essentially, a predestination paradox.

[Askold]

a) It's not the prophecy forcing you to do it if it simply was a 100% accurate vision of the future. It would not be 100% accurate if it didn't factor in how you knowing what is about to happen will affect you. I mean it could show you saving the president from an assassination which is what you want to do.

b) If the prophesy was a vision of the future based on how it WOULD HAVE gone without any tampering, then the knowledge gained from the vision would let you affect the future. ...Except that now it can only be used as a "if I want this to happen I should act as if I didn't have this extra info, if I want to prevent it then I can act based on it BUT that would mean that the future has been changed and I don't know what else will change."