Author Topic: More proof that Catholicism is true  (Read 2268 times)

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Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More proof that Catholicism is true
« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2018, 01:33:01 pm »
Why didn't God tell him Galileo was right?

Why didn't he explain germ theory to the Pope?

Or electricity?

I don't believe in Papal infallible because of what the Pope's don't say, not because of what they did.

Because it wasn't necessary for God to do so at that time because he knew that Heliocentrism would be proved true in the future and that Galileo would be vindicated. It wasn't necessary for God to explain germ theory, or electricity to the Pope because other people discovered those things.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: More proof that Catholicism is true
« Reply #46 on: November 13, 2018, 03:06:41 pm »
Being a geocentrist is failure. Failure to prioritize observed phenomena over scripture.

Jacob, if the only way you think you'll win a battle fir hearts and minds is via appeal to semantics then you've lost. Why are you here?

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More proof that Catholicism is true
« Reply #47 on: November 13, 2018, 03:26:35 pm »
Being a geocentrist is failure. Failure to prioritize observed phenomena over scripture.

Jacob, if the only way you think you'll win a battle fir hearts and minds is via appeal to semantics then you've lost. Why are you here?

It is a failure but it is not an ex cathedra failure because he didn’t define geocentrism as a doctrine to be upheld by the entire church. I was responding to and debunking Skybison’s argument that the Galileo incident disproves Papal Infallibility.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: More proof that Catholicism is true
« Reply #48 on: November 13, 2018, 03:59:37 pm »
Being a geocentrist is failure. Failure to prioritize observed phenomena over scripture.

Jacob, if the only way you think you'll win a battle fir hearts and minds is via appeal to semantics then you've lost. Why are you here?

It is a failure but it is not an ex cathedra failure because he didn’t define geocentrism as a doctrine to be upheld by the entire church. I was responding to and debunking Skybison’s argument that the Galileo incident disproves Papal Infallibility.
Galileo's entire trial was because Heliocentricism contradicted the literal word of the bible, it posited that the Earth moved. If the bible doesn't constitute a "doctrine to be upheld by the entire church" I dunno what is.

And you haven't answered my question, why are you here? What are you trying to achieve?

If the net result of your advocacy is more hostility and scepticism of the thing you're advocating, you're doing it wrong.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More proof that Catholicism is true
« Reply #49 on: November 13, 2018, 04:26:48 pm »
Being a geocentrist is failure. Failure to prioritize observed phenomena over scripture.

Jacob, if the only way you think you'll win a battle fir hearts and minds is via appeal to semantics then you've lost. Why are you here?

It is a failure but it is not an ex cathedra failure because he didn’t define geocentrism as a doctrine to be upheld by the entire church. I was responding to and debunking Skybison’s argument that the Galileo incident disproves Papal Infallibility.
Galileo's entire trial was because Heliocentricism contradicted the literal word of the bible, it posited that the Earth moved. If the bible doesn't constitute a "doctrine to be upheld by the entire church" I dunno what is.

And you haven't answered my question, why are you here? What are you trying to achieve?

If the net result of your advocacy is more hostility and scepticism of the thing you're advocating, you're doing it wrong.

But Galileo's trial was done by an Ecclesiastical Tribunal not the Pope himself, so the tribunal's condemnation of heliocentrism is not an infallible statement of the Pope.

And it is obvious why I am here. I am here trying to convert you guys to Catholicism and am therefore making arguments in favor of Catholicism and refuting arguments made against Catholicism such as Skybison's.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: More proof that Catholicism is true
« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2018, 06:41:50 pm »
1. Said tribunal answers to the Pope, like everything inthat organization, they certainly don't rule in a high profile case without his blessing.

2. It's. Not. Working. It hasn't worked and it won't work, it's pointless. Unless you're here to troll, that is working for what it's worth I guess.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More proof that Catholicism is true
« Reply #51 on: November 13, 2018, 08:12:17 pm »
1. Said tribunal answers to the Pope, like everything inthat organization, they certainly don't rule in a high profile case without his blessing.

2. It's. Not. Working. It hasn't worked and it won't work, it's pointless. Unless you're here to troll, that is working for what it's worth I guess.

1. But the specific decree made by the tribunal was not formally signed by Pope Urban VIII.

2. I keep trying because I want to give you as many opportunities as possible to save your souls.

Offline dpareja

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Re: More proof that Catholicism is true
« Reply #52 on: November 13, 2018, 08:26:47 pm »
souls.

Oh good. Let's start there. Proof that souls even exist, please?
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Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More proof that Catholicism is true
« Reply #53 on: November 13, 2018, 08:52:36 pm »
souls.

Oh good. Let's start there. Proof that souls even exist, please?

This video is scientific proof that during near death experiences, people’s souls actually leave the body. Therefore people’s near death experiences of either heaven or hell are therefore real. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s0F5F4hp3mY

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: More proof that Catholicism is true
« Reply #54 on: November 13, 2018, 08:58:34 pm »
1. Said tribunal answers to the Pope, like everything inthat organization, they certainly don't rule in a high profile case without his blessing.

2. It's. Not. Working. It hasn't worked and it won't work, it's pointless. Unless you're here to troll, that is working for what it's worth I guess.

1. But the specific decree made by the tribunal was not formally signed by Pope Urban VIII.

2. I keep trying because I want to give you as many opportunities as possible to save your souls.
Nothing that high profile gets done in the RCC without papal approval, particularly during that period in history. Context: in his Dialogue on Two World Systems Galileo, which was only done that way because of church pressure he sets up a Socratic dialogue between a Gary Stu character representing himself and Simplicio, whose name has implications that aren't hard to work out who's a stand in for the Pope.

Galileo dissed the Pope, subtlety but it was there so don't tell me the Pope had nothing to do with his persecution.

Also if you genuinely believed in souls and the need for their salvation you'd think that you would employ methods that weren't do consistently mocked and derided around here that you keep repeating despite the consistent negative feedback. Your schtick does not work!

You don't think name calling, fuck-yous and rolling on the floor laughing at you are signals of receptivity and approval, do you?

Protip: Youtube mockumentaries and docudramas of dubious authenticity have never worked, this one will not work.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 09:01:34 pm by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Skybison

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Re: More proof that Catholicism is true
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2018, 01:03:21 am »
It is a failure but it is not an ex cathedra failure because he didn’t define geocentrism as a doctrine to be upheld by the entire church. I was responding to and debunking Skybison’s argument that the Galileo incident disproves Papal Infallibility.

And you miss my point.  I don't believe in Papal Infallibility because it's only been used on stuff that's impossibly to verify.  If the Pope was always right about stuff that could be double checked I'd believe it.  But plenty of stuff he's said has been proven wrong, and Ctholic say that doesn't count.  If he was infallible why doesn't he use it for anything useful?

Offline Skybison

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Re: More proof that Catholicism is true
« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2018, 01:11:29 am »
It wasn't necessary for God to explain germ theory, or electricity to the Pope because other people discovered those things.

How many people died, or lived more awful and miserable lives because God didn't explain that stuff to us earlier?

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: More proof that Catholicism is true
« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2018, 07:40:25 am »
1. Said tribunal answers to the Pope, like everything inthat organization, they certainly don't rule in a high profile case without his blessing.

2. It's. Not. Working. It hasn't worked and it won't work, it's pointless. Unless you're here to troll, that is working for what it's worth I guess.

1. But the specific decree made by the tribunal was not formally signed by Pope Urban VIII.

2. I keep trying because I want to give you as many opportunities as possible to save your souls.
Nothing that high profile gets done in the RCC without papal approval, particularly during that period in history. Context: in his Dialogue on Two World Systems Galileo, which was only done that way because of church pressure he sets up a Socratic dialogue between a Gary Stu character representing himself and Simplicio, whose name has implications that aren't hard to work out who's a stand in for the Pope.

Galileo dissed the Pope, subtlety but it was there so don't tell me the Pope had nothing to do with his persecution.

Also if you genuinely believed in souls and the need for their salvation you'd think that you would employ methods that weren't do consistently mocked and derided around here that you keep repeating despite the consistent negative feedback. Your schtick does not work!

You don't think name calling, fuck-yous and rolling on the floor laughing at you are signals of receptivity and approval, do you?

Protip: Youtube mockumentaries and docudramas of dubious authenticity have never worked, this one will not work.

I did more research on it and found out that “In 1870 a Roman Catholic clergy man in England, the Rev. Mr. Roberts, evidently thinking that the time had come to tell the truth, published a book entitled The Pontifical Decrees against the Earth's Movement, and in this exhibited the incontrovertible evidences that the papacy had committed itself and its infallibility fully against the movement of the earth. This Catholic clergyman showed from the original record that Pope Paul V, in 1616, had presided over the tribunal condemning the doctrine of the earth's movement, and ordering Galileo to give up the opinion. He showed that Pope Urban VIII, in 1633, pressed on, directed, and promulgated the final condemnation, making himself in all these ways responsible for it.”

I am therefore in another spiritual crisis.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: More proof that Catholicism is true
« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2018, 07:45:40 am »
Ok, have fun.

Offline KingOfRhye

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Re: More proof that Catholicism is true
« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2018, 08:47:06 am »
Best way to avoid spiritual crises: Don't be spiritual.   :P