Author Topic: Rule talk  (Read 9428 times)

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Online niam2023

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #90 on: June 30, 2019, 10:48:59 pm »
Okay. New day.

Now. Tell us your actual political opinions.
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Offline Chaos Undivided

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #91 on: July 01, 2019, 02:17:25 am »
A caricature, not a strawman. I am not making any serious arguments, I'm mocking you.

Edit: To be more precise, I am still implying that you are using dishonest debating methods to try to move people more to the right which in this forum means more towards the center. So, there is a repetition of my earlier position implied in addition the mockery.

I had to expand my post with this edit for honesty. I wouldn't want anyone to think I am being dishonest and desceptive, after all.

I'm not trying to "move people more to the right". And if you want to prove you're not being "dishonest and deceptive", why don't you back up your allegations? If I'm really what you say I am, it shouldn't be that hard to prove. Unless, of course, you're just pulling these accusations out of your ass Joe McCarthy-style.

To your direct question, cracker: It may well depend on whose accusing me. If it were you I would laugh my arse off. Because I don't give a fuck what you think. In much the same way I didn't care when you called me a racist.  Now if it were my kids or my relatives calling me a child molester I would be very upset. But that wouldn't happen because I'm not. Probably would feel the same about being called a war criminal. If it were you I would laugh. If it were anyone else I would be puzzled, as I'm only armed with my cock.

As an aside you do take this shit really seriously.

To your second point, why the fuck do you care what happens to the forum.

Why don't you simply tell us who you are...

I don't. Like I said, this forum can rot away for all I care.

Anyway, since I promised to come clean about my politics today, here goes.

Economically, I'm a capitalist. But I don't believe in the kind of capitalism supply-side economists espouse. I believe that large corporations have too much power over the lives of average citizens, and that we need to be wary of industries being dominated by handfuls of big companies. I'm in favor of an increase to the minimum wage, pro-workers' rights and consumers' rights, and anti-corporate personhood. But I'm skeptical of socialism, because I believe well-regulated capitalism is the best economic system out there. Just look at how good things were economically between the fifties and the seventies.

While I think war is horrible, I can acknowledge that sometimes it's necessary. But it should never be entered into lightly or without an exit strategy. We must always ask if war is really the best way to achieve our goals.

There's quite a lot to say about my views on foreign policy. In general, I think America should be more of a deal maker and less of a chess player. But we have to be willing to get tough with rogue states and authoritarian regimes. For more specific stuff, I'm in favor of a two-state solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict, believe we should work on containing Russia and Iran, and I'm not sure we're concerned enough about China and Saudi Arabia trying to spread their influence abroad.

Socially, while I'm anti-SJW and anti-PC, as well as skeptical of quite a few "social justice" claims and narratives, I consider myself a progressive. I am a supporter of LGBT rights. I believe there's institutionalized racism and sexism. I'm in favor of religious freedom, but firmly support separation of church and state. I'm against censorship, pro gun-rights, pro-choice, and anti-tort reform.

Now for the other stuff. I'm an environmentalist who thinks we should phase out the use of fossil fuels for energy. I am in favor of the Paris Agreement. I'm against illegal immigration, but I still think detained illegals should be held in humane conditions, and I have nothing against immigrants coming to America legally. I'm a civic nationalist, and I don't much like ethnic nationalism. Net neutrality is important. We need to fix our infrastructure.

Overall, there are broad concepts I support. Nuance. Kindness. Individual liberty. Reason. Human dignity.

Sorry if this isn't up to your standards, I was really tired when I typed it. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
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Online niam2023

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #92 on: July 01, 2019, 02:19:31 am »
Okay then.

Define for us what SJW and PC mean for you.
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Offline davedan

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #93 on: July 01, 2019, 02:51:11 am »
Yes, who are you cracker?

Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #94 on: July 01, 2019, 10:18:09 am »
My final thoughts for Ultimate Chaos:

You white knight right wingers regularly and while you don't endorse explicit bigotry you demand bigots are given the benefit of a doubt while interpret anything by a "SJW" or a far-left activist in the worst possible light. Obsession (usually a selective one) with political correctness and anti-SJW obsession are the main giveaways of an alt-right sympathizer.

You were an open Gamergate fan back when it was still a topical issue but proved that even you didn't believe in your defense of them. You also have regularly commented on links you post with an obvious alt-right skew that either directly contradicts the content behind the link or presents it in an dishonest manner. There are two likely interpretations: you either intentionally lie or you get both the commentary and the links from the same source that you don't bother to fact-check since it confirms your own bias.

Thing is, if I trusted you are honest about yourself and your opinions I would think you are just a misguided and naive alt-light centrist. Since you have proved that you don't care about honesty I have chosen to interpret your behavior in a more malicious light - you might be an alt-right troll who just hides his power level since this is a common tactic they use and explicitly endorse. There is no way to know your actual thoughts so I judge you based on your demonstrated priorities. I don't care how you feel or if you think this is fair, my priority is to confront the harmful ideas you express in the most effective way possible.

Edit: or, to be more precise, I alternate between confronting the flaws of the "centrist" world view you claim to have and mocking your dishonesty when I don't think see anything worth putting any intellectual effort in.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 01:25:25 pm by SCarpelan »

Offline Chaos Undivided

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #95 on: July 01, 2019, 02:10:46 pm »
Okay then.

Define for us what SJW and PC mean for you.

OK then.

SJW (Social Justice Warrior): Someone who takes social justice politics to extremes. They frequently act obnoxious and/or smug about their beliefs, and generally have a "with us or against us" attitude. And they hold a lot of the blame for "social justice" developing similar connotations to "family values".

PC (Political Correctness): Overreaching attempts to avoid offending certain groups. It's generally associated with socially left-wing individuals and groups, but some have claimed that it's not unique to them. When George Carlin described it as "fascism pretending to be manners", he was too kind, since a lot of PC types don't even try to be polite anymore.

My final thoughts for Ultimate Chaos:

You white knight right wingers regularly and while you don't endorse explicit bigotry you demand bigots are given the benefit of a doubt while interpret anything by a "SJW" or a far-left activist in the worst possible light. Obsession (usually a selective one) with political correctness and anti-SJW obsession are the main giveaways of an alt-right sympathizer.

You were an open Gamergate fan back when it was still a topical issue but proved that even you didn't believe in your defense of them. You also have regularly commented on links you post with an obvious alt-right skew that either directly contradicts the content behind the link or presents it in an dishonest manner. There are two likely interpretations: you either intentionally lie or you get both the commentary and the links from the same source that you don't bother to fact-check since it confirms your own bias.

Thing is, if I trusted you are honest about yourself and your opinions I would think you are just a misguided and naive alt-light centrist. Since you have proved that you don't care about honesty I have chosen to interpret your behavior in a more malicious light - you might be an alt-right troll who just hides his power level since this is a common tactic they use and explicitly endorse. There is no way to know your actual thoughts so I judge you based on your demonstrated priorities. I don't care how you feel or if you think this is fair, my priority is to confront the harmful ideas you express in the most effective way possible.

It's easy to say all these things, but without evidence to back them up, this is just a witch hunt. I could say you're a Russian spy or that you sacrificed a black cat to Satan yesterday, but unless I present evidence, that would just be empty words.

Accusing somebody of secretly following a toxic ideology is a pretty scummy move, so unless you have evidence to back it up, I'd say my McCarthy comparison is pretty spot-on.
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #96 on: July 01, 2019, 02:19:14 pm »
The reason everyone is dog piling you and the mods are sitting it out is because it is painfully apparent that you’re the Dynamic paragon of chaotic reverse anal. The evidence is you’re endgame and argumentation style. Demand more all you want, nobody takes your ass seriously.
Does anyone take Donald Trump seriously, anymore?

Offline fluffyDbringer

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #97 on: July 01, 2019, 02:47:44 pm »
okay I guess I'm doing this again

direct question, mr "8chan has the right to post child porn": what is the mildest possible thing a person can believe or do that constitutes being an SJW or PC
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Online niam2023

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #98 on: July 01, 2019, 03:23:25 pm »
And why does it matter so much to you if some percentile of social justice types act "smug" or "Obnoxious"? And what in your view constitutes smug and obnoxious behavior? Are you saying that you are against people trying to keep out right wing opinions?

And, given certain groups are currently discriminated against heavily, why does it matter to you so much if people try and avoid harming certain groups verbally or with messaging? What harm does it do to you? And why the emphasis on politeness? I'd argue politeness isn't mandatory.
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Offline Chaos Undivided

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #99 on: July 01, 2019, 05:08:26 pm »
okay I guess I'm doing this again

direct question, mr "8chan has the right to post child porn": what is the mildest possible thing a person can believe or do that constitutes being an SJW or PC

Direct answer: I will never respond to you again until you stop accusing me of being pro-CP and a ban-dodger. Or until the mods finally start cracking down on that bullshit. Whichever comes first.

And why does it matter so much to you if some percentile of social justice types act "smug" or "Obnoxious"? And what in your view constitutes smug and obnoxious behavior? Are you saying that you are against people trying to keep out right wing opinions?

It's for the same reason many Christians hate holier-than-thou religious right types. Even when I'm in agreement with these people, they're just so arrogant, rude and closed-minded that I just can't deal with them.

To me, smug and obnoxious behavior includes (but isn't limited to) the following:
- Saying you're on the "right side of history" or anything along those lines. It's the secular equivalent of claiming to be carrying out God's will.
- Refusing to acknowledge that you might be wrong.
- Suggesting those who disagree with you must automatically have something wrong with them, whether it's ignorance, malice, stupidity, or anything else.
- Relying on personal attacks and accusations of wrongdoing in arguments.
- Trying to silence dissenters.
- Insulting anyone who asks for decorum.

And yes, I'm against people trying to keep out right-wing opinions, just as much as I'm against people trying to keep out left-wing or centrist positions. We need a free and open exchange of ideas.

And, given certain groups are currently discriminated against heavily, why does it matter to you so much if people try and avoid harming certain groups verbally or with messaging? What harm does it do to you? And why the emphasis on politeness? I'd argue politeness isn't mandatory.

Well, for one thing, the PC crowd's ideas about what's "offensive" are often completely ridiculous. For another, they claim to be "protecting" certain groups, only to ignore or brush off members of those groups that disagree with them. I have more reasons - as well as specific examples - if you want them.

Just FYI, I wasn't trying to put any special emphasis on politeness.

And I asked a direct question that never got answered:

Oh look, more unsubstantiated, unfalsifiable claims that I'm actually a ban-dodging former user. Direct question to the mods: why is this shit allowed?

So, why is it? Or is it not allowed, but you just let it happen for some reason?
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Offline fluffyDbringer

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #100 on: July 01, 2019, 05:33:53 pm »
so the "dudewhodefendedchildpornandwasonceultimateparagonsayswhat" gambit actually worked. neat. also appreciate you being honest with your answer that your definition of a SJW is facile and unreasonably wide and basically only ever includes "leftists" whose advocacy begins and ends with "can't everyone just get aloooooooooooong", that was refreshingly good-faith of you. could use some actual commentary on what you think the "PC crowd" considers offensive rather than just giving the usual "oh no, I totally have examples, my examples are the best examples" spiel that you did back you when you were UP. 4/10 see me after class
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Offline davedan

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #101 on: July 01, 2019, 05:47:12 pm »
The reason everyone is dog piling you and the mods are sitting it out is because it is painfully apparent that you’re the Dynamic paragon of chaotic reverse anal. The evidence is you’re endgame and argumentation style. Demand more all you want, nobody takes your ass seriously.

And the fact that he constantly brings things up from the distant past which couldn't possibly interest anyone who wasn't there. Like those old quotes from the mainpage. I mean you wouldn't even know where to find that shit unless you knew where to look.

And that he has some weird obsession with the forums which wouldn't simply spring up from being a recent user.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #102 on: July 01, 2019, 06:33:34 pm »
Exact a mundo, if he really believed the line about this being a dying relic of the old web packed with crazed SJWs falsely accusing him of all manner of imaginary sins, he'd make good on his promise to ragequit.

Mate, if you know the people you're talking to won't believe if you tell them the sky's blue without popping their heads out to check there's no room for changing minds or dialogue. If it's trying to sway those 'on the fence' it's not working because the majority of the forum has already little to no confidence in the accuracy or sincerity of anything you say.

If you're quote mining for KiA or Kiwi Farms wouldn't  they be royally bored shitless of this little psychodrama by now? It's not as if they've run out of content creators failing to be conservatively correct to flip out over or women, minorities and trans people to harass.

The same sad git returning to have the same sad arguments is, unfortunately looking more credible than either a genuine centrist looking to sway fence sitters or change minds or a drive by Kiwi Farms raider because both of those would have fucked off by now!
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 06:35:39 pm by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Online niam2023

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #103 on: July 01, 2019, 06:43:50 pm »
Including when right wing opinions inevitably boil down to "you are a sinner, and this is wrong because it is against the words of 3000 year old goat herders"? Including when right wing opinions are just "everything is fine, nothing should change - ever"?

The right wing cannot and will not accede to a similar course of action. They advocate for a free and open exchange of ideas only insofar as it gets them in the door. Inevitably whenever I bring up a left wing opinion to a right winger, they go right ahead into their usual list of insults and I get blocked for "being anti-American." Which is honestly fine with me - I consider every single time I've been called Anti-American a badge of honor.

These "NotYourShield" individuals are most often fake identities put on by (white) members of a designated hate mob. And even if there are members of these groups with these opinions, it doesn't stop them from being wrong, heinous and disgusting. Just because there is a member of those groups that disagree and advocate for inevitably a right wing covering / right wing opinion... that doesn't mean anything.
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Offline Chaos Undivided

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Re: Rule talk
« Reply #104 on: July 01, 2019, 09:34:58 pm »
You know what? Fuck it. I'm done talking to you guys.

Where you at, mods?
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