Author Topic: The war in Syria is changing  (Read 2177 times)

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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: The war in Syria is changing
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2019, 06:51:35 am »
Is that letter for real? It looks like it was typed out by a sixth grader.

That's points for authenticity from where I'm sitting.

Offline Id82

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Re: The war in Syria is changing
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2019, 12:30:10 pm »
And what was that great deal? Giving Turkey everything they wanted and giving the Kurds or the US nothing other than having a ceasefire so the Kurds can leave before Turkey rolls on in which the Turkish army is already violating.
The art of the deal at work.
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Offline DarkPhoenix

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Re: The war in Syria is changing
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2019, 08:51:20 pm »
And what was that great deal? Giving Turkey everything they wanted and giving the Kurds or the US nothing other than having a ceasefire so the Kurds can leave before Turkey rolls on in which the Turkish army is already violating.
The art of the deal at work.

Donald insists every deal he makes is great, even when he's getting railroaded.

Offline Id82

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Re: The war in Syria is changing
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2019, 12:18:28 pm »
Even when Trump thinks the best deal is him getting everything and his opponent getting nothing. That's not how deals work Donny.
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Offline Vanto

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Re: The war in Syria is changing
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2019, 04:45:21 pm »
McConnell's introduced a resolution against Trump's withdrawal:

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/22/politics/mitch-mcconnell-resolution-syria-troops/index.html

Offline dpareja

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Re: The war in Syria is changing
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2019, 09:11:48 pm »
Remember: the only matter on which elected Republicans and Democrats alike are willing to denounce Trump is when he reduces the US military presence overseas.

This one just happens to be the one place where he gets criticism from the quarters who would otherwise agree with reducing said military presence because it involves the betrayal of promises made to an ally that's been continually dicked over by the West for a century.
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It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

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Offline Vanto

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Re: The war in Syria is changing
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2019, 12:12:20 am »
I think there are some very important lessons to be learned from this.

1. The power of the POTUS to act unilaterally on military and foreign policy (probably policy in general, now that I think about it) really should be checked. Trump's blunder has proven that the POTUS can't always be trusted to act in accordance with America's interests or basic human decency.

2. Other Western countries can't rely on the US alone to contribute significant ground forces in military operations. Had the UK, France, etc. also had a significant presence in Northeastern Syria, Trump's decision to withdraw wouldn't have had the consequences it did.

3. Refusing to stand up to or call out somebody just because your interests happen to align in some areas can and will come back to bite you. Trump's "allies" (read: sycophants) in Congress helped make the mess we're in.

4. Never rely on somebody who's proven to be as mercurial, reckless, irresponsible and inconsistent as Trump has.

On a related note, how do you feel about mental competence tests for politicians? Because after this, I really think they're a good idea.

Offline dpareja

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Re: The war in Syria is changing
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2019, 12:29:44 am »
Who sets the test? My mind always jumps to the original purpose of IQ tests.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Vanto

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Re: The war in Syria is changing
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2019, 02:51:51 pm »
Who sets the test? My mind always jumps to the original purpose of IQ tests.

After sleeping on it, I'm gonna say you're probably right.

In other news, many European leftists are rejecting the Kurds... because they allied with America.

Offline davedan

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Re: The war in Syria is changing
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2019, 05:06:35 pm »
Sorry in that article Zizek has not identified who these 'Leftist' Colleagues are, nor what amounts to 'Leftist' critical distance. There are a number of difficulties with framing a conversation like this:

1. Unnamed 'Leftist' colleagues reeks of apocrypha, Trump's Everyone is saying (which is just what he is thinking), or in Australia the perennial cabbie on the way into the city. It leaves you in doubt of whether such people exist.

2. Without naming them there characterisation as 'Leftist' is itself suspect. Reading US media (and political cartoons) there is a large subset in the US who consider Joe Biden left (or even radical left), whereas I think conventionally he would be considered centre right. The whole left right dichotomy is becoming increasingly less useful anyway where issues of populism, authoritarianism and ethnocentrism are becoming increasingly prevalent and can be the dominant force of an ideological group. For instance I would consider that Trump is more nativist than 'Right wing'.

3. It leaves you in doubt as to whether these colleagues have any institutional power so that they can effect foreign policy in their respective European countries. How many European countries have 'left' wing governments at the moment outside of Scandinavia. It does highlight the greater problem of inaction by Europe and indeed the EU against Turkey considering that it is one of their NATO allies. I would have thought that was a much worse indictment than simply contrarian academics (who remember court unpopular views).

I suppose the article does highlight something about the zeitgeist, in that as US imperialism is on the decline (the power of that imperialism has fallen markedly in the last 3 years), it will become less 'cool' to be anti-us imperialist.

Offline Vanto

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Re: The war in Syria is changing
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2019, 12:02:46 am »
Well, according to Trump, al-Baghdadi's dead. Great news if true, but I'm not holding my breath until it's confirmed.

Also, Trump seems to be fixated on Syria's oil fields.

Offline niam2023

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Re: The war in Syria is changing
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2019, 12:16:13 am »
I just know we're going to see al-Baghdadi suddenly leap out and start singing "I am not dead yet!"
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Offline dpareja

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Re: The war in Syria is changing
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2019, 03:04:57 am »
I just know we're going to see al-Baghdadi suddenly leap out and start singing "I am not dead yet!"

CALIPH ABU BAKR AL-BAGHDADI IS STILL DEAD!
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Askold

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Re: The war in Syria is changing
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2019, 06:19:54 am »
I suppose he saw this as his opportunity to have a similar announcement like the one Obama did when Osama was killed.
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Offline Kanzenkankaku

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Re: The war in Syria is changing
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2019, 06:40:15 am »
Last time I checked, there's discussions about suspending Turkey from NATO, because this is ethnic cleansing, and the other countries don't want to have any part in it.  And would it surprise anybody for Erdogan to switch allegiances to work with Russia instead?

Meanwhile, captured ISIS agents are escaping and/or being freed, which means this idiotic move by Donald the Doofus probably brings ISIS back from the dead.  Congrats, Trump, you are the father of ISIS now!

The thing is, there are Kurdish separatists in Turkey, and some of them are terrorists, and they very likely are getting some support from Syrian Kurds.

So Turkey has a legitimate national security concern here.

As for being the father of ISIS... no, that makes him the god of ISIS, since only gods can bring people back from the dead.

This goes into the whole "terrorist vs freedom fighter" debate honestly. Turkey is now essentially a dictatorship that's historically and increasingly shit to it's women and minorities and is actively suppressing dissidents. I feel like at a certain point the Kurds would be justified in not following laws. The only thing I can really condemn universally on a front like that would be killing innocents. Civilians should always be off-limits in conflicts like that.