Author Topic: Democratic Primaries Thread  (Read 1821 times)

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Offline niam2023

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #135 on: March 24, 2020, 12:26:05 am »
How predictable.
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Offline Cloud3514

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #136 on: March 24, 2020, 12:49:28 am »
AOC should be the future of the Democratic party. She's got the drive to push it left and the potential to bring the establishment with her, as well as being young enough that she's only going to become more and more recognizable and popular.

The problem is, it takes very little for the likes of the dirtbag left to turn on people.
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Offline niam2023

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #137 on: March 24, 2020, 01:33:26 am »
Presumably they'll make every effort once Bernie dies to hook that fucking corpse up to a golden throne and start uttering hymns to try and keep it alive.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #138 on: March 24, 2020, 02:56:13 am »
I don't doubt that there are plenty of Sanders supporters who are all in on him and won't support literally anyone else.

I also don't doubt that there are plenty of Sanders supporters who support him because of the policies he proposes and would vote for someone like AOC.
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Offline Cloud3514

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #139 on: March 24, 2020, 03:41:10 am »
Sure, there are plenty of people who legitimately believe Sanders to be the best choice for President. I don't agree with them for a number of reasons (obviously), but he really does have supporters who treat him like a holy savior.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #140 on: March 24, 2020, 10:19:33 am »
Honestly, I feel like Sanders would be a better choice for VP.  Everybody wants the big hat because they think its got the most influence, but the Vice President's got a fair amount more pull with the legislature than the President does.  Maybe a Biden/Sanders ticket or something along those lines; mollify those on Bernie's side by the fact he'll still be in a position of significant power while giving a more approachable face to the Oval Office.
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #141 on: March 24, 2020, 03:48:12 pm »
I'd like to throw in one important observation from an outsider's perspective. I have accustomed to the political discussion and debate in the Finnish media and while there are ideological paradigms that are accepted implicitly in the coverage that is inevitable. Most of the media will lean by default towards the center ground of whatever the borders of Overton's window are in its environment. When tuning on to the American debates I expected that the implicit perspective would be from the center to far right compared to my environment.

The very scary observation I made is that the American coverage is very different. In general, the debate moderators wear this ideological bias in their sleeve instead of implicitly in the background and there is an artificial narrative construction is very clearly present the analysis parts. If a Finnish TV channel would broadcast a debate in the vein of those I watched it would be pilloried by political journalists; some moments might even end up as headlines in the yellow press.

There were moments where I felt they were channelling a mirror image of the Soviet propaganda machine. A huge difference to the more crude propaganda is that most of the time the questions and discussions were while more superficial than I've used to pretty fairly presented when you account for the different Overton's window. The actual propagandistic moments were precision strikes in between the more fair coverage. I am genuinely confused: is this really what passes as politically neutral coverage in the US?

Quote
Honestly, I feel like Sanders would be a better choice for VP.
Hell no. I say this as someone whose clear favourite he is. Both Biden and Sanders would need a younger VP since there is a very real chance they would end up taking over.

Edit: I just realized my username and profile image are very appropriate to this discussion. Stig Carpelan is satire of a dreadfully dry and boring political journalist from a sketch show.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 03:54:28 pm by SCarpelan »

Offline dpareja

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #142 on: March 24, 2020, 03:59:32 pm »
Honestly, I feel like Sanders would be a better choice for VP.  Everybody wants the big hat because they think its got the most influence, but the Vice President's got a fair amount more pull with the legislature than the President does.  Maybe a Biden/Sanders ticket or something along those lines; mollify those on Bernie's side by the fact he'll still be in a position of significant power while giving a more approachable face to the Oval Office.

Biden's already said he'll pick a woman, and almost certainly a non-white woman. My money's on Stacey Abrams or Kamala Harris. If he really wanted to mollify Sanders' supporters, he'd pick Nina Turner, but some of them might be satisfied with Barbara Lee.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline niam2023

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #143 on: March 24, 2020, 08:27:15 pm »
Polls came out recently that show Biden AND Sanders beating Trump.

We'll see if it holds true, but that should show that "ONLY MUH SANDERS CAN BEAT TRUMP" is not a universal sentiment.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #144 on: March 24, 2020, 08:30:40 pm »
Polls came out recently that show Biden AND Sanders beating Trump.

We'll see if it holds true, but that should show that "ONLY MUH SANDERS CAN BEAT TRUMP" is not a universal sentiment.

There've been plenty of polls that show Biden beating Trump.

There were also plenty of polls that showed Clinton beating Trump.

And for myself, I've never said "Bernie Would Have Won" (and will not say it after November 3, 2020, whatever the result) since I think there are too many unknowns to say that with any remote sense of certainty.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Id82

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #145 on: March 24, 2020, 09:38:34 pm »
Trump's approval rating is at 50 percent now. I don't know if he can be beaten in just seven months. If polls are saying Biden can beat Trump than it's really going to be close.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #146 on: March 25, 2020, 12:01:01 am »
Trump's approval rating might be at 50% but we'll see if the dead bodies start mounting.

Also, bets on whether the DNC will replace Biden at the convention, and if so, with whom? Andrew Cuomo or Gavin Newsom, perhaps?
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline DarkPhoenix

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #147 on: March 25, 2020, 12:56:02 am »
I'd like to throw in one important observation from an outsider's perspective. I have accustomed to the political discussion and debate in the Finnish media and while there are ideological paradigms that are accepted implicitly in the coverage that is inevitable. Most of the media will lean by default towards the center ground of whatever the borders of Overton's window are in its environment. When tuning on to the American debates I expected that the implicit perspective would be from the center to far right compared to my environment.

The very scary observation I made is that the American coverage is very different. In general, the debate moderators wear this ideological bias in their sleeve instead of implicitly in the background and there is an artificial narrative construction is very clearly present the analysis parts. If a Finnish TV channel would broadcast a debate in the vein of those I watched it would be pilloried by political journalists; some moments might even end up as headlines in the yellow press.

There were moments where I felt they were channelling a mirror image of the Soviet propaganda machine. A huge difference to the more crude propaganda is that most of the time the questions and discussions were while more superficial than I've used to pretty fairly presented when you account for the different Overton's window. The actual propagandistic moments were precision strikes in between the more fair coverage. I am genuinely confused: is this really what passes as politically neutral coverage in the US?

Quote
Honestly, I feel like Sanders would be a better choice for VP.
Hell no. I say this as someone whose clear favourite he is. Both Biden and Sanders would need a younger VP since there is a very real chance they would end up taking over.

Edit: I just realized my username and profile image are very appropriate to this discussion. Stig Carpelan is satire of a dreadfully dry and boring political journalist from a sketch show.

The big problem with American political discourse is that all of the news networks are owned by billionaires.  And it's clear that while the amount of push on the stories varies from network to network, every network in the US wants to force the discussion towards topics the big bosses want to hear about... And for most of said networks, the big bosses are Republican.  Thus every political discussion is slanted towards Republican viewpoints.  This is what leads to the propaganda questions you mentioned; that, and there is nothing the US MSM loves more than a horse race, and they'll get it no matter what they have to do.  The truth is generally the first causality.  And they're so wedded to this horse-race BothSides bullshit, that they will willingly bring on liars, con-men and morons to give the appearance of hearing from BothSides... And they never acknowledge that one side is entirely without merit.

Trump's approval rating is at 50 percent now. I don't know if he can be beaten in just seven months. If polls are saying Biden can beat Trump than it's really going to be close.

Trump's approval rating is not at 50%; it's at 45%.  The 50% was a 100-person survey MSNBC conducted asking "Do you think the President has done a good or bad job at handling the Coronavirus crisis?"  Clearly they didn't screen for MAGAts.

Offline Id82

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #148 on: March 25, 2020, 04:53:04 am »
This is based on 538s, I guess a more accurate way to say it's disapproval rating which stands at 50.8 percent.
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Offline DarkPhoenix

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Re: Democratic Primaries Thread
« Reply #149 on: March 25, 2020, 01:21:21 pm »
This is based on 538s, I guess a more accurate way to say it's disapproval rating which stands at 50.8 percent.
Here:
https://civiqs.com/results/approve_president_trump?annotations=true&uncertainty=true&zoomIn=true&utm_campaign=ticker

Civiqs has the advantage of aggregating multiple polling sources into a general result.  His approval rating is 45%, which is still too high, but he's never been above 50%.