Video Game Thread 2.0

[Second Coming of Madman]

GUESS WHAT FUCKSTICKS!
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9fpQ7-1KGU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9fpQ7-1KGU</a>
Instagram filters and a selfie stick, modded into DooM

This swamped Doomworld for a while, but I did get it eventually. Should be good for a laugh or two.

[Askold]

Now that I got back into Fallout New Vegas (I'm going to finish the Honest hearts DLC later today) I also went and looked at some forums about Fallout games... The support for the Legion is surprising.

a) Some people claim that NCR is corrupt, evil & incompetent (they do have their share of each of those, but I consider it realistic and better than idealistic "goody-two-shoes" faction) and then ignore all the evil that the Legion does. Despite the fact that both factions justify the evil they do by it being a necessary evil for good cause.

b) Some people claim that the Legion only treats their slaves and enemies badly at warzones and that the Legion home regions are much nicer place where the slaves are treated better and there is virtually no crime or corruption.  (even if the latter claim was correct it seems odd to ignore the evil they do just because it is a warzone. CIA only tortures people who they think might be terrorists but that doesn't make it ok. The Japanese only raped, tortured, murdered and ate people during the WW2 but that didn't make it ok either.)

[ironbite]

They are aware that where ever the Legion goes it's a war zone right?  There is literally no Legion homeland.  They want to make New Vegas their Rome but to do that they need to kick the NCR and House out first.

Ironbite-hence this conflict.

[Art Vandelay]

In the time Fallout: New Vegas in set, Colorado, Arizona and I think parts of Utah are the Legion homeland. They want to make New Vegas their capital, not their entire homeland to the exclusion of all other regions. Particularly those where Legion rule and culture are well established. And they are indeed very safe and peaceful. Traders especially love operating in Legion territory because raiders are non-existent.

That's largely what makes the Legion such an interesting faction. Under normal, more civilised circumstances, they'd be seen as horribly barbaric, and rightly so. In New Vegas, on the other hand, they certainly have some very legitimate merits. The NCR at a glance operates in a far less repugnant manner, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a better life for the average person. Even in NCR home regions, raiders and other assorted bellends are still a major problem. Having a government that condemns slavery and torture is small consolation when it for one reason or another can't or simply won't stop the local outlaws from stealing your stuff, burning your home and raping/murdering your family. The Legion has no such problems in its own homelands. Even if you're a slave, you're still a hell of a lot safer than you'd be almost anywhere else, not to mention you're guaranteed food and shelter, which is more than can be said for the vast majority of wastelanders. It's really a hell of a lot less cut and dry than it seems at a glance.

Of course, all of this assumed that Legion home territory is indeed as safe and peaceful as we've been told. I really wish there was some DLC, if not parts of the main game, set in Colorado proper, just so we could see for ourselves what Legion rule would be like once the war is over.

In any case, I really like the factions in New Vegas. Not only are the NCR and Legion both shades of grey rather than 100% good and evil, But also the Brotherhood of Steel is not one of them. In every single fallout game, they've been be the major "good" faction of the game, and it would've been so easy and safe for Obsidian to go the same route with New Vegas. Instead though, they did what actually makes sense. The Brotherhood is simply too set in its ways of just scavenging and reverse engineering the fanciest guns and armour, and in the early days of the apocalypse, that was all you needed to be the best. Now that folks like the NCR, Legion and New Vegas itself have moved on from scavenging and began to rebuild modern states, the Brotherhood is simply no longer relevant.

[ironbite]

Well I don't like either side so I usually take over New Vegas myself.  Fuck everyone else.  I'm the one who's been murdering things from Goodsprings to New Vegas and beyond.  I leave a trail of carnage and blood everywhere I go and I still find time to help people. 

Ironbite-I love the anarchy ending for New Vegas because it's really what should happen in these types of game.

[Zygarde]

I go NCR, but that's just me I will never support those slave happy Legion fuckers.

[Second Coming of Madman]

When Ulysses seems the sanest choice to go with, you know you're fucked in more ways than one.

[chitoryu12]

You remember JE Sawyer, the lead developer of New Vegas and a major part of the creation of the first two Fallout games? He happens to be a member of the Something Awful forums under the username "ropekid", and he's chimed in many times about the background to the games.

The Legion is nowhere near as rosy as some may make it seem. The problem is that they simply don't have the infrastructure and civilization of the real Rome. They're closer to the Golden Horde, an expanding army with no real civilian culture behind it. All civilians in Legion territory exist purely for the purpose of supporting the military and its conquering. As Arcade says in the game, Caesar views invading New Vegas as his own crossing of the Rubicon. He wants to make New Vegas his New Rome, and believes that he can expand into civilization and a new Pax Romana from there.

In the meantime, the Legion is shitty. It does kill off raiders and keeps trade going and established societies are mostly left alone as long as they pledge allegiance, but that's about where the good parts stop. Tribal communities that lack what he views as civilization are brutally subjugated and pressed into service as Legionnaires. Women are less than second-class citizens and are essentially property or baby factories, with Caesar encouraging raping and pillaging as a means of suppressing dissent. Rape is encouraged in particular (especially for slaves), as women are expected to produce strong boys for the Legion. So yes, you could say that life under the Legion isn't as bad as life under the rule of raiders....if you're not someone that the Legion wants to exploit. If they think they can get something out of you, you're liable to be literally whipped into shape to become cannon fodder for their invasions. That's assuming that you're not too weak and end up dying, or that they don't kill you out of hand just to set an example. The idea that Legion rule is better than independent rule also requires the guaranteed existence of raiders, bandits, warlords, etc. to act as a threat. Without this threat for the Legion to destroy, they're liable to just make life worse.

What a lot of people don't realize about New Vegas is that it wasn't written for a morally gray "everyone is right and wrong in some ways" mentality. A lot of games, especially bleaker ones, try to make every faction somewhere in the middle of the ideal vs. awful scale. But the Legion was indeed written to be a villainous faction that acts as an antagonist, and was never meant to be a sensible choice even for a relatively pragmatic Courier. The option to side with the Legion was less about the Legion being a good alternative to the NCR and more out of an attempt to ensure freedom for the player.

[Søren]

Total war attilla was designed for future gpus. Lol

[Askold]

a) I still would have preferred to have the game be about different political fighting rather than Good vs Evil ...But if the Legion had been less evil, then they would have been a bit too close to what House already is. A benevolent but strict dictatorship. (House also does some evil stuff in the name of greater good just like all the factions.) But that is just my preference.

b) Now that the Brotherhood of Steel was mentioned what I want to remind is that through the series you see them fall from power. Not (only) because they are losing power, but mainly because the other towns and nations are catching up. The Enclave certainly has them beat in tech, weapons and armour (and resources as well presumably) but even the rest of the wastes was getting better. In F2 most of the towns are already producing stuff and not just scavenging on the bones of the old world. NCR, Vault city, San Francisco and even places like Broken hills and New Reno have working power plants and are producing even high tech gear. In F2 their main advantages were Power armour and energy weapons but they were already outnumbered. In the canon they had chosen to stand on the sidelines and help the wastes rebuild and although in F1 they could have taken over the region (like they do in the ending where you have killed Rhombus) but by the time they tried it in the NCR-BoS war they were outnumbered and outmatched. Even games like Fallout 3 and Tactics show the BoS splintering further as they argue what their place in the world should be.

c) My main amusement in the Legion defenders is that they dig up all the evil that the other groups have done ...The NCR allied with Bishops and hired raiders to murder random travelers, the NCR has taxes (this really was raised as an example of how evil they are), etc. But then they excuse the Legion of all the evil that they do, saying it doesn't count.

d) Personally I see that the Independent ending has the potential to be the "nicest" if the players is a good person and has negotiated peace with all the main communities, but House also has charm. Not that he wouldn't do stuff like wipe out the Brotherhood or kill the Kings just because they made peace with NCR, but he at least offers real stability and wealth to the region unlike the Legion.

[RavynousHunter]

If House would let me keep the Brotherhood alive, then he'd have gotten to live.  I always support my Brothers and Sisters of Steel.  They helped me save my homies in Vault 13 from the muties, and they helped me kill the Enclave on BOTH coasts.  Then again, I play as if my guy's been alive since Fallout 1, and is basically a Time Lord who loses his memory (for a time) every time he regenerates.  He (or she) always has an undying loyalty to the Brotherhood.

BROTHERHOOD OF STEEL 4 LYFE!

[Second Coming of Madman]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug_gqH1tzPk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug_gqH1tzPk</a>

[Askold]

Oh... Dear... GOD!

Deathclaws!


Deathclaws...

I knew those things were scary in New Vegas but had mostly avoided them on my previous playthroughs.

...Actually, the last time I played New Vegas my computer started overheating and I couldn't play with my old computer anymore. So I had completed the game once or twice, but my characters were something like level 20 or so when I finished the game (diplomacy!) and hadn't actually even killed Lanius in battle or fought the nastier stuff. I usually avoided battle with those characters.

Now that I went through Honest Hearts and got like 10 levels just there I am already on level 20 even though I haven't even entered the strip and am just running through Veronica's quest. But those damn Deathclaws were standing between me and the BoS bunker and DAMN there were many of them. (Is this due to some update or just because of my level?) I feel like I should have kept the Desert Ranger duster and shouldn't have given it to Veronica... And I need to get a better weapon than my .308 hunting rifle...

[ironbite]

Deathclaws aren't all over the place in New Vegas but damn do they seem to concentrate.  Start out near Quarry Junction and they have the whole place to themselves.  Also they've got a nice spread between that and Gypsum Train Yard.

Ironbite-but they're concentrated so best to grab a .50 cal if you're gonna take 'em on.

[RavynousHunter]

Oh no, that's not a bug or anything, there's a literal deathclaw nest on the main road between Goodsprings and New Vegas and it is VERY hard to navigate if you, like me, don't want to waste time tracking around the damn things, going by way of Novac, just to get to the Gun Runners to get a decent weapon or at least some extra bullets.