Rand Paul: Audit the Pentagon

[Lt. Fred]

How can a secret organisation like a spy agency or a defence department exist within a democracy? Obviously, it cannot be held accountable before law or before the public, is completely unelected and unaudited.

[armandtanzarian]

How can a secret organisation like a spy agency or a defence department exist within a democracy? Obviously, it cannot be held accountable before law or before the public, is completely unelected and unaudited.

Makes me suspect what Rand is getting at. That and the fact that his dad's "Audit the Fed" campaign is really an exercise to look for reasons to shut down the institution.

[Rime]

Another pipe dream,

How about auditing discretionary spending? Or better yet, let me get ahead of the curve here, audit the auditors.

But the auditor auditors need to be held accountable, so let's hire an independent third party group which will audit the auditor auditors.

Somehow, it seems to sound better when you replace "auditor" with "police"

[Distind]

I'd be far less flippant if I thought he had a solid basis for the audits he's throwing out, but that'd be work and he's a politician.

That said, I'd love to have the chance to go over the military budget point by point and find out exactly where the money went. I'd be dead before I finished, but still.

[VirtualStranger]

At this point, I think that libertarians really like auditing things just for the sake of auditing them.

Is there anything that they wouldn't audit?

[Witchyjoshy]

At this point, I think that libertarians really like auditing things just for the sake of auditing them.

Is there anything that they wouldn't audit?

Themselves.

[Old Viking]

Do you know what else would be fun? A giant conga line down the steps of the Lincoln Memorial.

[Meshakhad]

How can a secret organisation like a spy agency or a defence department exist within a democracy? Obviously, it cannot be held accountable before law or before the public, is completely unelected and unaudited.

At the same time, such organizations, and the secrecy that goes along with them, are necessary for the survival of any nation. So we do the best we can. The DOD and CIA are accountable to the President and to their respective congressional committees, who are of course elected officials.

[Cataclysm]

inb4 everybody remembers this comment and forgets his rape comments.

The rape guy was Paul Ryan. This particular fellow is Rand Paul.

I can't keep track of why each individual (R) pisses me off.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_HVyoT2PgM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_HVyoT2PgM</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlunIcrr1Pk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlunIcrr1Pk</a>

[Fpqxz]

^^OK, that first one, the healthcare speech, was quite possibly the dumbest fucking thing I have ever heard.

Does this idiot really not understand the concept of Universal Healthcare?  Countries that have it don't "enslave" anyone, they simply pay for medical services out of a common public fund (or some other scheme).  I'm pretty sure that physicians and nurses in those countries don't walk around in chains.

(Never mind the fact that many healthcare workers in the "free market" USA, including doctors, work insane hours for pay which is often quite low.)

[Lt. Fred]

How can a secret organisation like a spy agency or a defence department exist within a democracy? Obviously, it cannot be held accountable before law or before the public, is completely unelected and unaudited.

At the same time, such organizations, and the secrecy that goes along with them, are necessary for the survival of any nation. So we do the best we can. The DOD and CIA are accountable to the President and to their respective congressional committees, who are of course elected officials.

It's the paradox of Democracy.

[rookie]

How can a secret organisation like a spy agency or a defence department exist within a democracy? Obviously, it cannot be held accountable before law or before the public, is completely unelected and unaudited.

That's an interesting thought, Fred. I thought about it for a while and I'd like to share with you what I came up with.

The United States isn't a democracy. Lots of people think it is, but those people are mistaken. No, the Land of the Free actually operates a Republic style government. So your question, as good as it is, is purely rhetorical. A very fun mental exercise. But at the end of the day, it's little more than that.

ETA: After rereading that, it came out a bit snarky. That wasn't my intention, please believe me.

[Sylvana]

We audit the government departments every year and all that happens is that the auditor general makes his report about all the departments that are stealing the public's money (just about all of them) at which point nothing happens. Auditing is all good and well but you actually need people to act on the information from those audits which I highly doubt will happen in any country. Government audits are a cute way of looking like government is being held accountable when in actual fact nothing is changing or happening.

[Lt. Fred]

How can a secret organisation like a spy agency or a defence department exist within a democracy? Obviously, it cannot be held accountable before law or before the public, is completely unelected and unaudited.

That's an interesting thought, Fred. I thought about it for a while and I'd like to share with you what I came up with.

The United States isn't a democracy. Lots of people think it is, but those people are mistaken. No, the Land of the Free actually operates a Republic style government.

They're literally identical forms of government. A Republic is any form of government without a monarchy, and a democracy is a specific form of government without a monarchy*. Are not the representatives in a 'Republic' elected?

* in charge.

[rookie]

They're not identical. Cousins is how I'd word it. In a democracy, the people vote on legislation. In a republic, representatives vote on the legislation.

Yes, we vote for our representatives. That would make it a democratic republic. Democratic here would be the adjective describing republic. What kind of republic? A democratic one.