I didn't know Australia had second-class citizens

[pyro]

Honestly, the only difference between de facto requirements and de jur requirements is that the latter get more thoroughly discussed.

[Sigmaleph]

Did you know you can't become a senator in Canada unless you are at least 30 years old? Shameful.

Did you know you can't become a senator in Argentina unless you are at least 30 years old? Shameful.

In all seriousness, I understand why the requirement was there initially, but I don't think it really needs to be there any more. I'd rather see something like requiring a graduate degree (or similar professional certification), with either that degree or an undergraduate degree from a Canadian university (but then I'm biased).

EDIT: And an age requirement is something that, barring unfortunate events, everybody will eventually attain; being natural-born (President of Argentina) is not; holding no other citizenships (Australian Parliament) is something that some people can't help (it's very hard to get rid of some countries' citizenships--I'm looking at you, USA).

EDIT #2: There are also property and net worth requirements for the Senate, but (excepting a technicality relating to Quebec) Parliament can do away with those by a simple majority vote should it wish to.

Many things about the argentinian political system are shameful, this is not in dispute.

I just think it's silly to claim any requirement to hold elected office, which ~every country has including yours, means someone is a second-class citizen.

[dpareja]

Did you know you can't become a senator in Canada unless you are at least 30 years old? Shameful.

Did you know you can't become a senator in Argentina unless you are at least 30 years old? Shameful.

In all seriousness, I understand why the requirement was there initially, but I don't think it really needs to be there any more. I'd rather see something like requiring a graduate degree (or similar professional certification), with either that degree or an undergraduate degree from a Canadian university (but then I'm biased).

EDIT: And an age requirement is something that, barring unfortunate events, everybody will eventually attain; being natural-born (President of Argentina) is not; holding no other citizenships (Australian Parliament) is something that some people can't help (it's very hard to get rid of some countries' citizenships--I'm looking at you, USA).

EDIT #2: There are also property and net worth requirements for the Senate, but (excepting a technicality relating to Quebec) Parliament can do away with those by a simple majority vote should it wish to.

Many things about the argentinian political system are shameful, this is not in dispute.

I just think it's silly to claim any requirement to hold elected office, which ~every country has including yours, means someone is a second-class citizen.

Senators are not elected; they are appointed.

And when some citizens have rights or privileges other citizens cannot attain (or not without great difficulty), or some are subject to certain duties or responsibilities others are not, then I do consider there to be multiple classes of citizenship.

[The_Queen]

You mean senators aren't even voted on in your country?!? Oh my god, no wonder we're having this discussion, your banana republic, poutine-exporting country simply does not understand how democracy works.

Australians are hereby declared date-worthy, and my love embargo is hereby place on Canada. Sorry Bobby Roode, congratulations Chris Hemsworth.

[ironbite]

......I was about to change my avatar to the Glorious One and now I've gotta go with Thor?

Ironbite-fuck you woman.

[dpareja]

You mean senators aren't even voted on in your country?!?

I have long been convinced that the more apparent democracy a country has, the less actual democracy it has.

There would be no use of an Upper House, if it did not exercise, when it thought proper, the right of opposing or amending or postponing the legislation of the Lower House. It would be of no value whatever were it a mere chamber for registering the decrees of the Lower House. It must be an independent House, having free action of its own, for it is only valuable as being a regulating body, calmly considering the legislation initiated by the popular branch and preventing any hasty or ill considered legislation which may come from that body, but it will never set itself in opposition against the deliberate and understood wishes of the people.

[Sigmaleph]

Senators are not elected; they are appointed.

My mistake, sorry.

And when some citizens have rights or privileges other citizens cannot attain (or not without great difficulty), or some are subject to certain duties or responsibilities others are not, then I do consider there to be multiple classes of citizenship.

I think this is broad enough to dilute 'multiple classes of citizenship' to uselessness. E.g. the entire existence of legislators means some people get to make laws, a rather important privilege, while others do not. And there is indeed great difficulty in becoming a legislator.

[dpareja]

And when some citizens have rights or privileges other citizens cannot attain (or not without great difficulty), or some are subject to certain duties or responsibilities others are not, then I do consider there to be multiple classes of citizenship.

I think this is broad enough to dilute 'multiple classes of citizenship' to uselessness. E.g. the entire existence of legislators means some people get to make laws, a rather important privilege, while others do not. And there is indeed great difficulty in becoming a legislator.

I should clarify, then; what I mean is that these things are true through no fault of their own. Someone can't help if they're born with multiple citizenships (and even if they try to get rid of them, the country in question might refuse the application), for instance, or that they're not a natural-born citizen. But if you run for office and fail to be elected, then some of the blame does fall on you.

[Sigmaleph]

Fair enough.

[RavynousHunter]

......I was about to change my avatar to the Glorious One [...]

...Art?

[The_Queen]

......I was about to change my avatar to the Glorious One [...]

...Art?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7oMBq1vkCM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7oMBq1vkCM</a>

This guy, that is his wrestling entrance. But alas, he's Canadian.

[RavynousHunter]

So, neither Art nor my penis?  Such a shame.

[dpareja]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/australia-dual-citizenship-1.4374578

And the issue's rearing its ugly head again.

Australia's High Court on Friday disqualified the deputy prime minister and four senators from sitting in Parliament in a ruling that could cost the government its slender majority in Parliament.

The decision to disqualify deputy prime minister Barnaby Joyce over a 116-year-old constitutional ban on dual citizens sitting in Parliament means a byelection will be held for his rural electoral district in December.

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull's conservative coalition has a single-seat majority in the 150-seat House of Representatives where parties form governments.

Joyce will be able to stand for re-election, having renounced the New Zealand citizenship he unknowingly inherited from his father. With the government trailing the opposition Labor Party in opinion polls, voters could use the byelection to toss both Joyce and his government out of office.

(emphasis mine)

The government had argued that only Ludlam and Malcolm Roberts, a senator in the minor One Nation party, should be expelled because they had failed to take reasonable steps to ensure that they only held Australian citizenship.

Solicitor-General Stephen Donaghue had told the High Court judges that the other five should not be disqualified from Parliament for breaching the constitution because they did not voluntarily acquire or retain citizenship of another country.

A clause in the constitution says "a subject or citizen of a foreign power" is not eligible to be elected to Parliament.

Donaghue, however, argued that the clause "cannot be read literally."

"If a person is not aware either that they are a dual citizen or of a significant prospect that they are, in our submission by definition that person cannot have a split allegiance," he told the court.

Bret Walker, a lawyer for Joyce and Nash, told the court that neither knew until recently that they were dual citizens of New Zealand and Britain, respectively.

As soon as they found out, they took all reasonable steps required to sever their foreign ties, Walker said.

"There's no split allegiance where you're not aware of one," Walker told the court. "You cannot heed a call you cannot hear."

EDIT:

The constitution bans dual nationals from Parliament, a prohibition that critics have condemned as outdated in a country where almost half the people are immigrants or have an overseas-born parent.

[ironbite]

Hey if you're not a pureblooded highwayman, cold blooded killer, pickpocket, or bank teller, Australia doesn't want you making decisions for the country.

Ironbite-and that's the way it should be.

[Tolpuddle Martyr]

Hey, the government fucking about with the citizenship ruling caused the courts to take a hard line on it and now they've lost their majority in the upper house. Well done kids!